"triple_r" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> > > Dunno. What's he sound like?
> >
> > His later work is loud, largely due to his deafness.  Check out his fifth
> > symphony (a very well known work) or the 9th.
>
> Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he wrote, not
> to mention some of the best.

I don't know what loudness you guys are talking about.  If you're talking about
dynamics of expression, Beethoven always had a passion for very contrasting
dynamics.  His music is filled with passion and extreme emotional states, even
from before deafness:  going from pianissimo to fortissimo and vice-versa --
using the full dynamic range the developing piano-forte allowed in contrast
with the older harpsichord.  How can you convey passion without dynamics?

Think Beethoven is loud?  Ever heard Wagner?  But yes, not too many people
enjoyed his "savage" sounds, like Chopin once put it.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> triple_r wrote:
> > Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he wrote, not
> > to mention some of the best.
>
> Or "Musical Offering", which takes one theme and beats it with a club of
> wonderous complexity until it's naught but a greasy stain on the concrete.

Are you talking of the 32 variations?  Yes, a magnificent masterpiece... :)

Post a reply to this message

"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > His later work is loud, largely due to his deafness.  Check out his fifth
> > > symphony (a very well known work) or the 9th.
> >
> > Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he wrote, not
> > to mention some of the best.
>
> Think Beethoven is loud?

Didn't mean to imply loud, only worth checking out for a good cross-section of
Beethoven.

> How can you convey passion without dynamics?

Glenn Gould seems to pull this off somehow.  Full of passion, but not much for
dynamics.

> Ever heard Wagner?  But yes, not too many people
> enjoyed his "savage" sounds, like Chopin once put it.

Or, as Mark Twain put it, "Richard Wagner, a musician who wrote music which is
better than it sounds."

 - Ricky

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:09:26 -0500, triple_r wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > Dunno. What's he sound like?
>>
>> His later work is loud, largely due to his deafness.  Check out his
>> fifth symphony (a very well known work) or the 9th.
> 
> Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he
> wrote, not to mention some of the best.

True, I always forget the quartets - also the solo works for stringed 
instruments (with accompaniment) are quite good.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:07:05 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> "triple_r" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> > > Dunno. What's he sound like?
>> >
>> > His later work is loud, largely due to his deafness.  Check out his
>> > fifth symphony (a very well known work) or the 9th.
>>
>> Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he
>> wrote, not to mention some of the best.
> 
> I don't know what loudness you guys are talking about.  If you're
> talking about dynamics of expression, Beethoven always had a passion for
> very contrasting dynamics.  His music is filled with passion and extreme
> emotional states, even from before deafness:  going from pianissimo to
> fortissimo and vice-versa -- using the full dynamic range the developing
> piano-forte allowed in contrast with the older harpsichord.  How can you
> convey passion without dynamics?

Have you heard Barber's "Adagio for Strings"?  Very passionate piece of 
music (I've been fortunate enough to perform it as a member of an 
orchestra), and while there is one notable section that is has a very 
strong fortissimo, the quiet sections aren't any less passionate.

> Think Beethoven is loud?  Ever heard Wagner?  But yes, not too many
> people enjoyed his "savage" sounds, like Chopin once put it.

I regularly listen to the entire "Ring" cycle.  Beethoven's loudness is 
very different from Wagner's, but it is no less pronounced.  The final 
movement of the 9th symphony is kinda the epitome of this, but the later 
works definitely have fewer quiet places than his earlier works.

Particularly when comparing the different periods of music the two 
composed in; I could as easily argue that Beethoven is quiet as a mouse 
compared to Aaron Copland, Howard Hanson, Igor Stravinsky, or Antonin 
Dvorak.  The four of them are much more modern composers than Beethoven.  
Compared to his contemporaries, Beethoven was quite loud.

This is not to say Beethoven wasn't absolutely brilliant.  It was, and I 
listen to my collection of the 9 symphonies about as often as I listen to 
the Wagner.  There is a lot of musical variety just in those 9 works of 
his.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:07:05 -0500, nemesis wrote:
>
> > "triple_r" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
> >> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> >> > > Dunno. What's he sound like?
> >> >
> >> > His later work is loud, largely due to his deafness.  Check out his
> >> > fifth symphony (a very well known work) or the 9th.
> >>
> >> Or his late string quartets (~Op. 127-135), some of the last music he
> >> wrote, not to mention some of the best.
> >
> > I don't know what loudness you guys are talking about.  If you're
> > talking about dynamics of expression, Beethoven always had a passion for
> > very contrasting dynamics.  His music is filled with passion and extreme
> > emotional states, even from before deafness:  going from pianissimo to
> > fortissimo and vice-versa -- using the full dynamic range the developing
> > piano-forte allowed in contrast with the older harpsichord.  How can you
> > convey passion without dynamics?
>
> Have you heard Barber's "Adagio for Strings"?  Very passionate piece of
> music (I've been fortunate enough to perform it as a member of an
> orchestra), and while there is one notable section that is has a very
> strong fortissimo, the quiet sections aren't any less passionate.
>
> > Think Beethoven is loud?  Ever heard Wagner?  But yes, not too many
> > people enjoyed his "savage" sounds, like Chopin once put it.
>
> I regularly listen to the entire "Ring" cycle.  Beethoven's loudness is
> very different from Wagner's, but it is no less pronounced.  The final
> movement of the 9th symphony is kinda the epitome of this, but the later
> works definitely have fewer quiet places than his earlier works.
>
> Particularly when comparing the different periods of music the two
> composed in; I could as easily argue that Beethoven is quiet as a mouse
> compared to Aaron Copland, Howard Hanson, Igor Stravinsky, or Antonin
> Dvorak.  The four of them are much more modern composers than Beethoven.
> Compared to his contemporaries, Beethoven was quite loud.
>
> This is not to say Beethoven wasn't absolutely brilliant.  It was, and I
> listen to my collection of the 9 symphonies about as often as I listen to
> the Wagner.  There is a lot of musical variety just in those 9 works of
> his.
>
> Jim

Beethoven?
to understand what we are talking about... ;-)

Mp3:

Sinfonia n 5 in Do minore op. 67, 1950, De Sabata Victor


Sinfonia n 8 in Fa maggiore op. 93, 1951, De Sabata, Victor


link: http://www.liberliber.it/audioteca/b/beethoven/index.htm







--
Carlo

Post a reply to this message

Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Enya, "And Winter Came...", track #3: "White is in the Winter Night".
>
> Just so you know, it ****in PWNZ! I've just listened to it, like, 4
> times back-to-back, and you know what? I think I'm going to play it yet
> again...
>
> Such PWN3RSH1P is rare indeed!
>
> --
> http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
> http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

I bought all the cd of Enya, until a few years ago.
I have the impression that Enya has *run out of ideas*.
Enya continues to copy itself.
(She made me hate the staccato!) :-)

--
Carlo

Post a reply to this message

On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:55:41 +0000, Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:

>nemesis wrote:
>> Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>>> I've just listened to it, like, 4 
>>> times back-to-back, and you know what? I think I'm going to play it 
>>> yet again...
>> 
>> I usually choose one single Bach or Beethoven piece to go along all day. ;)
>
>I defy you to dance to that though. ;-) Let alone sing along...
>

I dare you not to sing along to Beethoven's setting of "Ode to Joy" (An die
Freude).
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

Carlo C. wrote:

> I bought all the cd of Enya, until a few years ago.
> I have the impression that Enya has *run out of ideas*.
> Enya continues to copy itself.

Yeah. And somebody complained to me that they took an Enya CD and played 
it backwards and it still sounded the same. Whatever, each to their own. 
I listed to what *I* like listening to, and I'm really not bothered if 
anybody else approves. :-P

Post a reply to this message

Stephen wrote:

> I dare you not to sing along to Beethoven's setting of "Ode to Joy" (An die
> Freude).

1. That was Beethoven?

2. There are *words*??

Post a reply to this message