And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:22:12 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 14:22:02 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>>
>> And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 12:07:40 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>
>> did spake thusly:
>>
>>> Ha! You need a Swiss Army Knife for Christmas ;)
>>
>> Leatherman; let the fight begin :-)
>>
> There's no need to fight, Phil. Leatherman are good multi tools but they  
> don't
> suit my needs. I have one but seldom use it. To be honest, with my Swiss  
> Army
> knife, after the blade the tool I use most is the corkscrew :)

And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:19:11 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address  
>>> belongs to...)
>>  Why would that be?
>
> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people  
> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at  
> random?

Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless you  
hide it and then some won't let you connect.

>> Your ISP knows who's connecting to them and what IP address has been  
>> assigned to them. If the company keeps its own logs then it's simply a  
>> matter of matching up times.
>
> Excep that I'm almost certain that it's illegal for ISPs to give out  
> that kind of information. (I'm also almost certain they don't even  
> record it in the first place, because it would be too hard.)

Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos  
about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of  
telephone records?

>> Come the official police state and we'll all have fixed IP addresses  
>> tied to our ID cards and it'll be a criminal offence to use a different  
>> one.
>
> Yeah, ain't that the truth...
>
>> On an even easier note if you've signed up to Google (or don't clear  
>> your cookies) and did the search there then they at least know exactly  
>> who you are and what you like to search for; all it'll take is a court  
>> order and voila.
>
> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?

Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know where  
you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look closely at  
the results google presents say for "test"

The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over it  
and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the properties of  
the link and you'll see it's going to  
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2Sb7LB6HcwwH00_ygCA&usg=AFQjCNH21KLjC0CBkjon2DwD_CZ0HApLMw&sig2=vLPKI-AayJcm2Yjw8x974w

They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and  
where you left for.

> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)

For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:33:35 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
<phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:

>And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.

Woosh!
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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>>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP 
>>>> address belongs to...)
>>>  Why would that be?
>>
>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at 
>> random?
> 
> Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless you 
> hide it and then some won't let you connect.

This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of 
several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.

> Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos 
> about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of 
> telephone records?

OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to 
give it to anybody else, are they? :-P

>> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?
> 
> Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know 
> where you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look 
> closely at the results google presents say for "test"
> 
> The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over it 
> and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the properties 
> of the link and you'll see it's going to 
>
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2S
> 
> They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and 
> where you left for.

OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I 
searched for. :-P

>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
> 
> For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?

...wuh?

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:45:59 -0000, Stephen <mcavoysAT@aoldotcom>  
did spake thusly:

> On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:33:35 -0000, "Phil Cook v2"
> <phi### [at] nospamrocainfreeservecouk> wrote:
>
>> And the Spartan is about a third the price of the C2, so fairy nuff.
>
> Woosh!

Spartan being the SAK with blade and corkscew and C2 being the cheapest LM  
of similar design. Just looked up recent prices - £9 vs. £50 woah a fifth  
of the price.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:49369337@news.povray.org...
>>> Right. And after you've used the knife trice, it'll be blunt. :-P
>
>> Not if it's good steel. You can always sharpen it again too :P
>
> Right. And how exactly do you sharpen a knife? :-P

You take it to a shop that offers sharpening services and ask them to do it.

If your knife blunts after cutting paper, it's a very poor quality knife.

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And lo On Wed, 03 Dec 2008 15:48:35 -0000, Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> did  
spake thusly:

>>>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP  
>>>>> address belongs to...)
>>>>  Why would that be?
>>>
>>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people  
>>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at  
>>> random?
>>  Except they know the telephone number you're connecting from, unless  
>> you hide it and then some won't let you connect.
>
> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of  
> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.

Customer A from phone-line B is assigned IP C at Time D
Customer A from phone-line B with IP C logs off at Time D, IP C returned  
to pool

To put it another way you're charged per unit (normally megabyte) for  
information downloaded to your mobile, how does your telecom provider know  
that's you getting that data?

>> Check various communications laws, there's normally a bunch of provisos  
>> about providing information. How do you think the police get hold of  
>> telephone records?
>
> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to  
> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P

Oh no of course not, it's also not likely that the DVLA will hand out  
information to anyone who sets up a Parking Enforcement company and can  
fill in an online form.

>>> Again, how do they get their hands on cookies for a different domain?
>>  Check your stats pages you might see a referrer address so they know  
>> where you came from, they then track you through their site. Now look  
>> closely at the results google presents say for "test"
>>  The first result is "Test.com Web Based Testing Software" hover over  
>> it and it'll take you to www.test.com right? Wrong! Pull up the  
>> properties of the link and you'll see it's going to  
>>
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.test.com%2F&ei=Bag2S
>>  They know where you came from, what you were doing on their site, and  
>> where you left for.
>
> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I  
> searched for. :-P

Referrer address = http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=   test    
&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr$3DcountryUK$7CcountryGB  
even features on some sites now with "[IP address] has landed on this site  
searching for [test]" even tries to resolve the IP Address to a place  
based on the ISP - used to have me as Brum now it thinks I'm in  
Cheltenham. And all that without the ISP logs ;-)

>>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
>>  For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?
>
> ...wuh?

www.google.co.uk/ig

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message 
news:4936a36b$1@news.povray.org...
>>> (Mercifully, it's virtually impossible to determine who an IP address 
>>> belongs to...)
>>
>> Why would that be?
>
> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at random?

IPs are not given out at random.  Each ISP has a range that they are allowed 
to assign. The IP address can be tracked back to the ISP. From there, 
depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell what username 
was usign that IP at that time.

If they were given at random, there would be IP conflicts

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>> This still doesn't explain who the ISP is supposed to keep track of 
>> several thousand computers all concurrently using their system.
> 
> To put it another way you're charged per unit (normally megabyte) for 
> information downloaded to your mobile, how does your telecom provider 
> know that's you getting that data?

Hmm, OK.

>> OK, so they give the *police* that information. They're not going to 
>> give it to anybody else, are they? :-P
> 
> Oh no of course not, it's also not likely that the DVLA will hand out 
> information to anyone who sets up a Parking Enforcement company and can 
> fill in an online form.

I don't follow.

>> OK, so they know I came from Google. They still don't know what I 
>> searched for. :-P
> 
> Referrer address = http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=   test   

> even features on some sites now with "[IP address] has landed on this 
> site searching for [test]" even tries to resolve the IP Address to a 
> place based on the ISP - used to have me as Brum now it thinks I'm in 
> Cheltenham. And all that without the ISP logs ;-)

Yeah, and some sites manage to figure out that I'm in Milton Keynes.

Do you have *any idea* how many people live in Milton Keynes? ;-)

>>>> (Also, what do you mean "sign up to Google"?)
>>>  For personalised info on iGoogle, you got Gmail?
>>
>> ...wuh?
> 
> www.google.co.uk/ig

Hmm... mildly entertaining, but... useful?

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>>> Why would that be?
>>
>> ...because every minute of every hour, hundreds of thousands of people 
>> connect to a given ISP and get assigned new IP addresses purely at 
>> random?
> 
> IPs are not given out at random.  Each ISP has a range that they are 
> allowed to assign. The IP address can be tracked back to the ISP.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. I meant they're assigned at random from the 
pool of addresses belonging to that ISP.

> From 
> there, depending what records the ISP keeps, they can probably tell what 
> username was usign that IP at that time.

This is the part that I doubt.

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