Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> Go and find a copy of the MIT Guide to Lock Picking.  Seriously.  It 
> explains this and you learn a lot about the mechanics of mechanical locks 
> from reading it.

  Every lockpicking guide I have seen talks only about pin locks. Thus
they help understanding how pin locks work, but they don't really help
understanding how other types of lock (such as disc tumbler locks) do.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 08:15:47 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> Go and find a copy of the MIT Guide to Lock Picking.  Seriously.  It
>> explains this and you learn a lot about the mechanics of mechanical
>> locks from reading it.
> 
>   Every lockpicking guide I have seen talks only about pin locks. Thus
> they help understanding how pin locks work, but they don't really help
> understanding how other types of lock (such as disc tumbler locks) do.

But for Andy's points, he's dealing with a pin lock, so it would be an 
appropriate reference.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:08:54 +0300, Eero Ahonen wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> 
>> Go and find a copy of the MIT Guide to Lock Picking.  Seriously.  It
>> explains this and you learn a lot about the mechanics of mechanical
>> locks from reading it.
>> 
>> Jim
> 
> Or just simply take one lock apart and check what it has eaten :).
> Preferably a one that has master-key -functionality, then you'll
> understand that also ;).

True, taking one apart would teach you a lot as well.

Jim

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> I personally think doing it in hardware with nuts and bolts is more 
>> impressive, but that may be just me.
> 
>   I suppose it's simply a question of cleverly allocating combinations
> of pin assignments to locks and keys. I can imagine at least one simple
> way of achieving a hierarchy of master keys with pin locks:
> 
>   In all locks, all pins have a cut for the highest-order master key,
> as well as the secondary cut for the lock-specific key.
> 
>   The locks are divided into groups of locks (eg. on a per department
> basis). All the locks in one group have the exact same secondary cut
> for the first pin, but this secondary cut is different in different groups.
> This way a master key for a specific group of locks uses the group-specific
> setting for the first pin, and for the rest of the pins it uses the setting
> for the highest-order master key. This way it can open all the locks in its
> own group, but it can't open the locks of the other groups (the first pin
> being different stops it).
> 
>   (If there are too many groups, using just one pin to differentiate between
> them might not be enough, but in that case more pins can be used for this
> purpose. The amount of combinations increases exponentially.)
> 
>   If each group should be further divided into smaller sub-groups, the
> same technique can be used with the second pin, the third pin, etc.
> 
>   Then there's the reverse problem: All keys, including lock-specific ones,
> should open a common lock (eg. the door leading to the entire department).
> A lock-specific key should open, naturally, its own lock *and* the common
> lock, but it nevertheless must not be a master key which could be used to
> open your work pal's office. Obviously master keys should also open these
> common locks as well. However, the lock should not be openable by a key
> not related to the company at all.
> 
>   In other words, the situation is kind of a reversal: The common lock is
> a "master lock": It should be openable by a group of keys, but not by any
> keys outside that group.
> 
>   I have difficult time bending my mind into resolving how exactly it is
> done, but I can perfectly imagine there's a simple way. Ingenuous, but simple.
> 
Our keys are more or less saw shaped, if you know what I mean. The 
master keys have this extra groove. It also has bigger indentations on 
some points. Put another way, if you have 3 or more keys that have the 
same master, all you need is a mechanical workshop to make a master. But 
don't tell anyone, I am not supposed to know.

Post a reply to this message

scott wrote:
> Sounds like BluRay encryption to me :-)

Yes, except there you need the players to actually enforce the 
encryption and the key invalidation, to a large extent. (How much, I 
don't know for sure, since they kind of conflate a number of different 
operations in one structure.)

But yes, that sort of encryption stuff fascinates me. :-)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

Jim Henderson wrote:
> True, taking one apart would teach you a lot as well.

Yeah, like not to take apart a lock anywhere near shag carpet if you 
ever expect to put it back together again.

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

Warp wrote:
> understanding how other types of lock (such as disc tumbler locks) do.

I think rather than "pick locks", what you're looking for there is 
"crack safes". :-) That sort of thing teaches you how the rotary-dial 
locks work. Between tumbler locks and rotary-dial locks, it's pretty 
easy to figure out how the variants work (like the ones with dents in 
the keys, or teeth cut on angles, etc.)

-- 
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
  Helpful housekeeping hints:
   Check your feather pillows for holes
    before putting them in the washing machine.

Post a reply to this message

>> True, taking one apart would teach you a lot as well.
> 
> Yeah, like not to take apart a lock anywhere near shag carpet if you 
> ever expect to put it back together again.

...or just not to expect to put a lock back together, ever?

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:49 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>Jim Henderson wrote:
>> True, taking one apart would teach you a lot as well.
>
>Yeah, like not to take apart a lock anywhere near shag carpet if you 
>ever expect to put it back together again.

LOL how true :)
You need a wooden floor to hear where those bits bounced to ;)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:49 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> True, taking one apart would teach you a lot as well.
> 
> Yeah, like not to take apart a lock anywhere near shag carpet if you
> ever expect to put it back together again.

This is also true. :-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message