Darren New wrote:

> Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually 
> pulling the plug on a server for $10. 

I once did it for free.  Servers were a new thing.  I turned it off 
along with the lights when I left for the night.  My mom always made me 
turn off the lights when I left a room.  My manager was angry.

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>> Personally, I can't imagine anyone who actually works there actually 
>> pulling the plug on a server for $10. 
> 
> I once did it for free.  Servers were a new thing.  I turned it off 
> along with the lights when I left for the night.  My mom always made me 
> turn off the lights when I left a room.  My manager was angry.

...and the Real WTF(tm) is "why would somebody who doesn't know what 
they're doing have access to a mission-critical system in the first 
place?" ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> ...and the Real WTF(tm) is "why would somebody who doesn't know what 
> they're doing have access to a mission-critical system in the first 
> place?" ;-)

  You mean, like most bosses?

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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Warp wrote:
> Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
>> ...and the Real WTF(tm) is "why would somebody who doesn't know what 
>> they're doing have access to a mission-critical system in the first 
>> place?" ;-)
> 
>   You mean, like most bosses?

Yes. Exactly like that. :-S

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> ...and the Real WTF(tm) is "why would somebody who doesn't know what
>> they're doing have access to a mission-critical system in the first
>> place?" ;-)
>
>  You mean, like most bosses?

Guess it depends where you have worked.  At the places I've worked, the 
bosses have done the same job as the people below them at some point in the 
past, so they have a pretty good idea what is going on.  I guess if you're 
working for a company that has expanded very quickly then of course you need 
to get in people who haven't had that experience, then you risk the bosses 
not having a clue what is going on under them.

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> Guess it depends where you have worked.  At the places I've worked, the 
> bosses have done the same job as the people below them at some point in 
> the past, so they have a pretty good idea what is going on.  I guess if 
> you're working for a company that has expanded very quickly then of 
> course you need to get in people who haven't had that experience, then 
> you risk the bosses not having a clue what is going on under them.

All I know is that The Daily WTF is *replete* with examples of companies 
where the MD or something wrote the original version of the company's 
product, but he can't actually code his way out of a paper bag, but he 
still likes to "show the beginners how a real expert does it" from time 
to time. And the real programmers end up going to extraordinary lengths 
to keep the bosses away from the build system.

It's not always due to expansion. There are any number of reasons why a 
company can end up with employees who think they know what they're doing 
when really they don't. The problem is especially acute when those 
people end up in management. (Who's gonna fire them?)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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> All I know is that The Daily WTF is *replete* with examples of companies 
> where the MD or something wrote the original version of the company's 
> product, but he can't actually code his way out of a paper bag, but he 
> still likes to "show the beginners how a real expert does it" from time to 
> time. And the real programmers end up going to extraordinary lengths to 
> keep the bosses away from the build system.

Hehe yeh, but it's not like every company where things Just Work write to 
the WTF and say "hey, here's one more company that's running fine thanks". 
The boss of my department has a PhD and numerous papers published on the 
exact subject we work on, and is usually involved directly in some of the 
more important customer projects as the expert.

> It's not always due to expansion. There are any number of reasons why a 
> company can end up with employees who think they know what they're doing 
> when really they don't. The problem is especially acute when those people 
> end up in management. (Who's gonna fire them?)

People don't just "end up in management", they either are promoted or 
recruited.  I presume the sort of people you talk about are directly 
recruited, so I guess that's a failing in the recruitment process if they're 
not very good.  And of course you don't fire them, you just don't give them 
any pay rise until they leave ;-)

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Invisible <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> > Guess it depends where you have worked.  At the places I've worked, the 
> > bosses have done the same job as the people below them at some point in 
> > the past, so they have a pretty good idea what is going on.  I guess if 
> > you're working for a company that has expanded very quickly then of 
> > course you need to get in people who haven't had that experience, then 
> > you risk the bosses not having a clue what is going on under them.

> All I know is that The Daily WTF is *replete* with examples of companies 
> where the MD or something wrote the original version of the company's 
> product, but he can't actually code his way out of a paper bag, but he 
> still likes to "show the beginners how a real expert does it" from time 
> to time. And the real programmers end up going to extraordinary lengths 
> to keep the bosses away from the build system.

  I have a theory: People with real talent (and experience) for programming
are often very poor at politics and diplomacy, which is the reason why they
seldom end up in high positions in a company. And vice-versa: People which
are good at politics and diplomacy (read: good at speaking BS) are often
not very talented nor experienced in programming.

  The typical "boss" is the latter type of person who, for some strange
reason, thinks he is a talented programmer.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"scott" <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote in message 
news:482c400e$1@news.povray.org...
  And of course you don't fire them, you just don't give them
> any pay rise until they leave ;-)

     True, it would work in the end I guess.  :)

    Might take some time though as pay rises are not handed out frequently.

     ~Steve~

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Warp wrote:

>   I have a theory: People with real talent (and experience) for programming
> are often very poor at politics and diplomacy, which is the reason why they
> seldom end up in high positions in a company. And vice-versa: People which
> are good at politics and diplomacy (read: good at speaking BS) are often
> not very talented nor experienced in programming.
> 
>   The typical "boss" is the latter type of person who, for some strange
> reason, thinks he is a talented programmer.

I agree. The current Director of IT is, IMHO, pretty rubbish with 
computers. But DAMN does he know exactly how to play the corporate 
politics game.

But hey, these people must get into management some how. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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