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"Gail Shaw" <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote in message
news:47e3d75f@news.povray.org...
>
> "St." <dot### [at] dot com> wrote in message news:47e3d54d@news.povray.org...
>>
>> Yes, to me as a non-scientific person, I'm thinking that this is, and
>> should be, achievable/possible, but alas, something that *seems* so
> simple,
>> is clearly not the case.
>
> Think of it this way. If you have 2 pans of water, same volume, one's just
> above freezing point (0C) and one at boiling point (100C). Can you use the
> pan of boiling water to bring the second pan up to boiling point?
>
> Similar thing, just with heat, instead of springs
Oh! That's a good anology Gail! No, of course that couldn't happen, and I
can see no way around it to make it happen other than making use of other
materials to do it. For example, (and this is off the top of my head): Steam
from said hot water soaks a towel above it. Towel gets heavy and falls onto
lever, switching gas on under cold water pan to heat it up
But there are those other outside influences again. I see the problem now.
~Steve~
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:42:53 +0200, "Gail Shaw"
<initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote:
>
>Think of it this way. If you have 2 pans of water, same volume, one's just
>above freezing point (0C) and one at boiling point (100C). Can you use the
>pan of boiling water to bring the second pan up to boiling point?
>
Maxwell's demon could :)
>Similar thing, just with heat, instead of springs
Doesn't that mean the universe will suffer when Entropy increases?
Thus proving the end of society as St first pointed out.
You've just proved his point. And if he was right about that then
maybe the Perpetual Motion Machine is possible after all!
--
Regards
Stephen
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Btw, literally just found this - the author is either psychic, or he knows
what he's taliking about. Note the date. It's a good read.
http://www.usagold.com/contests/june2004.html
~Steve~
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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote in message
news:qlm7u3lr5ovt1v54g35cfjkirjikv4soks@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:42:53 +0200, "Gail Shaw"
> <initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Think of it this way. If you have 2 pans of water, same volume, one's
just
> >above freezing point (0C) and one at boiling point (100C). Can you use
the
> >pan of boiling water to bring the second pan up to boiling point?
> >
>
> Maxwell's demon could :)
Maxwell's demon ignores the 2nd law of thermodynamics. That was the whole
point. It also assumes that it can find individual molecules, which may be
difficult with the quantum effects that small.
> >Similar thing, just with heat, instead of springs
>
> Doesn't that mean the universe will suffer when Entropy increases?
Sure. It's not a new observation. The 2nd law of Thermodynamics predics the
heat death of the universe. Entropy increases to the point where all systems
are at their least ordered and no energy can ever be extracted from any
system. The entire universe is at a steady temerature and no more change is
possible. Basically, the universe winds down.
> You've just proved his point. And if he was right about that then
> maybe the Perpetual Motion Machine is possible after all!
The second statement does not follow the first. And physics is very bad at
prediciting aspects of society. Will leave that to any sociaologists.
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:31:03 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>Btw, literally just found this - the author is either psychic, or he knows
>what he's taliking about. Note the date. It's a good read.
>
> http://www.usagold.com/contests/june2004.html
>
>
That sounds like it was written for the Gaia movement, the SF post
disaster stories, from the sixties onwards. Have you read anything by
John Brunner?
--
Regards
Stephen
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 18:46:34 +0200, "Gail Shaw"
<initialsurname@sentech sa dot com> wrote:
>
>The second statement does not follow the first. And physics is very bad at
>prediciting aspects of society. Will leave that to any sociaologists.
>
I know this I was reducing to the absurd for the sake of humour.
I must remember to sprinkle a few more smilies about.
I must remember to sprinkle a few more smilies about.
I must remember to sprinkle a few more smilies about.
I must remember to sprinkle a few more smilies about.
...
Oh! And if Maxwell's demon wants to ignore the 2nd law well that's up
to him or her, whatever :)
--
Regards
Stephen
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"Stephen" <mcavoysAT@aolDOTcom> wrote in message
news:fip7u3ddgu8fb2j9ff40lr7jp5uis9idhq@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:31:03 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>
>>Btw, literally just found this - the author is either psychic, or he knows
>>what he's taliking about. Note the date. It's a good read.
>>
>> http://www.usagold.com/contests/june2004.html
>>
>>
>
> That sounds like it was written for the Gaia movement, the SF post
> disaster stories, from the sixties onwards. Have you read anything by
> John Brunner?
No, but the name rings a bell. Is that the kind of writing he was/is
good at?
Presently, I've just started reading "The Vang: The Military Form" by
Christopher Rowley. Seems to be good so far.
~Steve~
> --
>
> Regards
> Stephen
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> What you have there is a perpetual motion machine. Physically impossible
Not necessarily. But highly improbable at the macroscopic level.
Apparently there are some quantum effects ("zero energy point") that
could actually maybe be used for this sort of thing. I didn't believe it
until a theoretical physicist told me yeah, maybe you could, because
thermodynamics doesn't apply to virtual particles.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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Gail Shaw wrote:
> It's no more possible than travelling faster than light or creating matter
> out of thin air. In fact, it's less possible than both of those (which
> theoretically do occur under strange circumstances)
Actually, they both occur all the time everywhere. :-)
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
"That's pretty. Where's that?"
"It's the Age of Channelwood."
"We should go there on vacation some time."
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:57:44 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> No, but the name rings a bell. Is that the kind of writing he was/is
>good at?
>
Actually no, he wrote about the oil and natural sources not quite
running out. As in "Stand on Zanzibar" 1968 is about over population,
The Jagged Orbit (1969), The Sheep Look Up (1972) and The Shockwave
Rider (1975). His most well known ones. He died in Glasgow in 1995 at
a World Science Fiction Convention.
I can't remember the writers who I've read, that dealt with the oil
and water running out but I get the impression that they were mostly
West Coast American writers.
> Presently, I've just started reading "The Vang: The Military Form" by
>Christopher Rowley. Seems to be good so far.
I can't say that I've read any of his. To tell the truth the name puts
me off :) I'm reading one of the "Monster Books" of SF. I've ran out
of books in the library. That is somewhere that is feeling the pinch.
--
Regards
Stephen
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