Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > wouldn't it just be a matter of downloading OpenGL headers and libs?
>
> Presumedly, since the other compilers already work with OpenGL, he
> doesn't even need to download them, yes?

he said he lost several hours on a dialup connection to download VSX in the
first place.  And just wiped it out before trying because would have to
download an additional, what, 2MB?  I'm not a pro M$ guy, you know.  But it
seems it was a complete waste of time.

Or, if he already had the other tools available, couldn't he just point VSX to
the available headers and libs via paths or environment variables or something?

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Halbert wrote:
> While I agree that MSVC++ *should* include OpenGL, 

Why? It's freely available elsewhere. Why should MS include free 
software and pay for the bandwidth for everyone to download it when many 
(most) people won't want it, given that it's presumedly simply a matter 
of downloading it from the authors somewhere?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Halbert wrote:
> > While I agree that MSVC++ *should* include OpenGL,
>
> Why? It's freely available elsewhere. Why should MS include free
> software and pay for the bandwidth for everyone to download it when many
> (most) people won't want it, given that it's presumedly simply a matter
> of downloading it from the authors somewhere?

yeah, and besides it would work against M$ policy of pushing their own standards
(DirectX) rather than work together with the rest of the industry in
industry-strength standards... why give ideas to developers by including
foreign tech?...

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Warp wrote:
> John VanSickle <evi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> Sunday evening:  Discovered that VC 2k8 Express doesn't come with the 
>> OpenGL headers or libraries.
> 
>> Just Now:  Remembered that Dev-C++ and OpenWatcom do.
> 
>> Just Now:  Uninstalled MS VC 2008 Express Edition.
> 
>   I'm sorry to say this, but that sounds kind of stupid.

I'm inclined to think that, at the very least, such a quick decision was 
perhaps a little too hasty. I mean, it's only an eventuality that the 
time will arise in which Dev-C++ or some other compiler will not meet 
the stringent standards demanded by xxx-library. VC is no small 
download, not for those of us still struggling with dialup (I get 24Kpbs 
here :(...)

Sam

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nemesis wrote:
> yeah, and besides it would work against M$ policy of pushing their own standards
> (DirectX) rather than work together with the rest of the industry

Yep. Welcome to for-profit software companies.

Name two other for-profit software companies that encourage you to use 
the competitors' software when you try out theirs for free?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     On what day did God create the body thetans?

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Darren New wrote:

> Name two other for-profit software companies that encourage you to use 
> the competitors' software when you try out theirs for free?

Here's a better one: Name two other software companies [that anybody has 
heard of]. ;-)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> yeah, and besides it would work against M$ policy of pushing their own 
>> standards
>> (DirectX) rather than work together with the rest of the industry
> 
> Yep. Welcome to for-profit software companies.
> 
> Name two other for-profit software companies that encourage you to use 
> the competitors' software when you try out theirs for free?

The MS Platform SDK does include the OpenGL headers, however. MS are 
obviously not too worried about promoting competing products.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
> > yeah, and besides it would work against M$ policy of pushing their own standards
> > (DirectX) rather than work together with the rest of the industry
>
> Yep. Welcome to for-profit software companies.
>
> Name two other for-profit software companies that encourage you to use
> the competitors' software when you try out theirs for free?

It's not the "competitors' software", it's an industry-strength API.  They could
provider their own implementation, but regardless of MS participating of
standards bodies like the W3C, they just choose to turn it down in favour of
their proprietary incompatible "standards".

Supporting industry-strength standards should only be a good thing.  It's
something major players in the industry agreed are a good thing.  It's
something consumers would agree to be a good thing if only the most used
platform more actively supported it, because it would allow competing platforms
running similar software based on the same standards to interoperate.  And
competition means better quality products on the market and fair prices.  Of
course, that's not on MS' agenda...

Other major industry-standards well supported by all major players are things
like XML, TCP/IP, HTTP etc.  As you see, most are network related, not platform
specific.  Since Windows don't rule on the server, it'd better comply or else MS
customers wouldn't find much happiness on the internet...

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"Invisible" <voi### [at] devnull> wrote in message
news:47b16fb5$1@news.povray.org...
> Darren New wrote:
>
> > Name two other for-profit software companies that encourage you to use
> > the competitors' software when you try out theirs for free?
>
> Here's a better one: Name two other software companies [that anybody has
> heard of]. ;-)

Oracle
Sun

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Gail Shaw wrote:

>> Here's a better one: Name two other software companies [that anybody has
>> heard of]. ;-)
> 
> Oracle
> Sun

I thought Sun only made hardware?

[Oh, mind you, they did do that little Java fad...]

OK, 10 points to Gail.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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