> More precisely: The encryption *must* be removed in order to *play* the 
> music. Therefore, this encryption must be trivially breakable,

Read the first post in this thread, which explains the basics of encryption 
on HD movie discs:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=122363

Now tell me (and everyone on that forum) that it's trivial to break :-)

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> For someone with the skills, extracting the necessary keys has become
> fairly trivial.  How long did it take for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD
> encryption to be "broken"?

Exactly, and it hasn't even been properly "broken" in the sense Andrew 
means.

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On Sat,  9 Feb 2008 05:29:22 EST, "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
>> >"I wouldn't recognise any of the others", the other being Beethoven and Mozart.
>> >Come on!  Even the chinese behind the Great Wall know Beethoven and Mozart!!
>>
>> Sadly this view is all too common in Britain :(
>
>I thought so.  Perhaps just Elgar, Handel, Johann Christian Bach, Haydn and a
>few others who actually went to England are appreciated, which is a shame.

I hay have given you the wrong impression. They are a lot of music lovers here
who would put the best of us to shame. :)

>Perhaps the British should come out of their hobbit-holes more often and see
>what a big world full of wonders it is out there...
>
>
Did we not visit your part of the world with our armies? No! then it must not
have been worth it ;-)
As I remember it was a Brit who found the Hobbits and the wraiths :)

Regards
	Stephen

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Stephen <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote:
> On Sat,  9 Feb 2008 05:29:22 EST, "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> >Perhaps the British should come out of their hobbit-holes more often and see
> >what a big world full of wonders it is out there...
> >
> Did we not visit your part of the world with our armies?

wonders are to be amazed at.  Not conquered or destroyed... ;)

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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 15:31:30 EST, "nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

>wonders are to be amazed at.  Not conquered or destroyed... ;)

True

Regards
	Stephen

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:57:54 +0100, Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
> 
>>> I'd think that the conversion back and forth would modify an attempt
>>> like this enough.  Remember that mp3 encoding is lossy, not lossless.
>> Yes, I know. And to overcome that, just don't make the changes to the
>> sound THAT small.
> 
> The thing is, the watermark, in order to be meaningful, would have to re-
> encode exactly the same way.  Otherwise, you end up with a scrambled 
> watermark.  So you can maybe tell it was there, but not what it was.

Redundancy. Error correction codes.

-- 
Tor Olav
http://subcube.com

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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 09:50:45 +0100, scott wrote:

>> For someone with the skills, extracting the necessary keys has become
>> fairly trivial.  How long did it take for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD
>> encryption to be "broken"?
> 
> Exactly, and it hasn't even been properly "broken" in the sense Andrew
> means.

Precisely - the result is the important thing.

Jim

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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:22:24 +0100, Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2008 14:57:54 +0100, Tor Olav Kristensen wrote:
>> 
>>>> I'd think that the conversion back and forth would modify an attempt
>>>> like this enough.  Remember that mp3 encoding is lossy, not lossless.
>>> Yes, I know. And to overcome that, just don't make the changes to the
>>> sound THAT small.
>> 
>> The thing is, the watermark, in order to be meaningful, would have to
>> re- encode exactly the same way.  Otherwise, you end up with a
>> scrambled watermark.  So you can maybe tell it was there, but not what
>> it was.
> 
> Redundancy. Error correction codes.

I don't think that helps from the point of converting and then re-
encoding.

Jim

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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:30:34 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 9 Feb 2008 15:39:13 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>I played in a youth orchestra when I was in high school, and the
>>conductor was having trouble getting us to learn the Symphonie
>>Fantastique,
> 
> LOL
> When it was written, the professional musicians of the time hated it. It
> was too difficult for them. Thirteen timpani detuned to get the effect
> Berlioz wanted in the march to the scaffold IIRC.

It's not surprising; it is a fairly difficult piece; and if you think the 
march effect was tough, you ain't seen the violin bit for the start of 
the 5th movement. ;-)

Jim

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On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 08:35:20 +0000, Stephen wrote:

> On 9 Feb 2008 15:46:28 -0500, Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> 
>>On Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:49:37 +0000, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> 11CDs SHOSTAKOVICH Complete Symphonies 1-15 Barshai
>>
>>I got the 10th as I was looking for a recording of the Festival Overture
>>and it was on that disc.  Third movement brings a vivid image to me of a
>>horse-drawn sleigh being pulled quickly across a snowy field for some
>>reason.
>>
>>
> That's my wife's I'll probably be out of the room or even the house,
> when she listens to it :)

:-)

>>How are the others?
>>
>>
> So far so good

Cool.  I had wondered; I like Shostakovich, but he does tend towards 
modern in his sound, and sometimes that doesn't work for me.

>>> CD DVORAK Complete Slavonic Dances Op 46, Op 72 RoyalPO 2CDs DVORAK
>>> Slavonic Dances & Other Music for PianoDuet
>>
>>Now there's something I haven't heard in ages - I think I've only got
>>those on cassette (and sheet music for violin solo at that).  I'd
>>forgotten about those almost entirely.
>>
> I've not got round to these yet. In fact I've got a backlog that is
> quite long :(

Same here...

Right now still trying to get through the complete scores from all 3 LOTR 
films.  Finished TTT yesterday, now going through FOTR.

Jim

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