POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.general : povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks? Server Time: 28 May 2020 21:20:27 GMT
  povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks? (Message 1 to 5 of 5)  
From: gregjohn
Subject: povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks?
Date: 8 Sep 2005 14:35:01
Message: <web.43204b61cff5d9da40d56c170@news.povray.org>
Is it illegal to put a povray CD in a magazine you sell for cash?

Please see:

http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/4.0


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks?
Date: 8 Sep 2005 15:00:57
Message: <43205229$1@news.povray.org>
gregjohn wrote:
> Is it illegal to put a povray CD in a magazine you sell for cash?
> 
> Please see:
> 
> http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/4.0

Assuming that person is talking about a Knoppix distribution on a DVD (the 
website name certainly suggests that, but I did not check), then than this 
person cannot read plain English:

<http://www.povray.org/distribution-license.html>

 >>>

2. OPEN SOURCE DISTRIBUTIONS

2.1. In return for the Distributor agreeing to be bound by the terms of
      this agreement, POV grants the Distributor permission to make a
      copy of the Software by including the Software in a generally
      recognised Distribution of a recognised operating system where the
      kernel of that operating system is made available under licensing
      terms:

       (a) which are approved by the Open Source Initiative
           (www.opensource.org as complying with the "Open Source
           Definition" put forward by the Open Source Initiative; or

       (b) which comply with the "free software definition" of the Free
           Software Foundation (www.fsf.org.

2.2. As at June 2004, and without limiting the generality of the term,
      each of the following is a "generally recognised Distribution" for
      the purposes of clause 2.1: Debian, Red Hat (Enterprise and
      Fedora), SuSE, Mandrake, Xandros, Gentoo and Knoppix Linux
      distributions, and officially authorized distributions of the
      FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD projects.

<<<

and some people can't manage to read the rest either.  I think the last 
sentence of 4.1 (c) is really clear:

 >>>

4. RESTRICTIONS ON DISTRIBUTION

4.1. Nothing in this agreement gives the Distributor:

       (a) any ability to grant any licence in respect of the use of the
           Software or any part of it to any person;

       (b) any rights or permissions in respect of, including rights or
           permissions to distribute or permit the use of, any Derived
           Code;

       (c) any right to bundle a copy of the Software (or part thereof),
           whether or not as part of a Distribution, with any other
           items, including books and magazines.  POV may, in response to
           a request, by notice in writing and in its absolute
           discretion, permit such bundling on a case by case basis.
           This clause 4.1(c) does not apply to Distributions permitted
           under clause 2;

<<<

I would say the inability to read English is the problem of the person on 
the website you cited. So, I think i can only wish you good luck trying to 
teach English to that person! <sigh>

	Thorsten


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From: Christoph Hormann
Subject: Re: povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks?
Date: 8 Sep 2005 15:05:02
Message: <dfpjnt$a63$1@chho.imagico.de>
gregjohn wrote:
> Is it illegal to put a povray CD in a magazine you sell for cash?

No.  For putting POV-Ray on a CD *in general* you must obtain written 
permission by the POV-Team.  But the distribution license contains an 
explicit exceptions for Open source Operating system distribution.  See:

http://www.povray.org/distribution-license.html

2.1. In return for the Distributor agreeing to be bound by the terms of
      this agreement, POV grants the Distributor permission to make a
      copy of the Software by including the Software in a generally
      recognised Distribution of a recognised operating system where the
      kernel of that operating system is made available under licensing
      terms:

       (a) which are approved by the Open Source Initiative
           (www.opensource.org as complying with the "Open Source
           Definition" put forward by the Open Source Initiative; or

       (b) which comply with the "free software definition" of the Free
           Software Foundation (www.fsf.org.

2.2. As at June 2004, and without limiting the generality of the term,
      each of the following is a "generally recognised Distribution" for
      the purposes of clause 2.1: Debian, Red Hat (Enterprise and
      Fedora), SuSE, Mandrake, Xandros, Gentoo and Knoppix Linux
      distributions, and officially authorized distributions of the
      FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD projects.


It even mentions Knoppix explicitly!

Note this includes any commercial distribution (as long as the Kernel 
complies with 2.1.a ot 2.1.b.  This means that a Knoppix distribution 
containing POV-Ray could be sold, bundled with books/magazines/whatever 
without first obtaining permission.

I agree this is difficult to conclude from the license text but that's 
because of the well known fact that the license has been originally 
written when such things as Linux distributions did not exist and it had 
to be adapted without breaking the spirit of the original license (which 
has a strong emphasis on preventing to obscure the fact that POV-Ray can 
be used for free).

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Landscape of the week:
http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/ (Last updated 24 Jul. 2005)
MegaPOV with mechanics simulation: http://megapov.inetart.net/


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks?
Date: 13 Sep 2005 18:49:40
Message: <43271f44$1@news.povray.org>
gregjohn wrote:

> http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Bugs/4.0

I added my own comment to the page. Unfortunately this sort of bias seems to
be common from folks in the GPL zone (e.g. we all remember Giram's rant
archived at http://warp.povusers.org/giramvspovray.html), but this new one is
probably one of the best examples I've seen.

Why ? Because we *explicitly permit his distribution*, even going so far as
to mention Knoppix in our distribution license*, and yet Klaus Knopper
*still* claims he can't distribute POV (in his words "at this point, I really
think it gets inacceptable") and uses this as an excuse to push the old "pov
should go OSS" line.

Unfortunately I don't think my correction will do any good as my experience
with this sort of thing is that some folks won't let facts get in the way of
a healthy dose of bias**.

Honestly I had expected better from someone with as high a profile as Klaus.

-- Chris

* yes, it did cost us money to get those terms added to the license; our
  lawyer charges by the hour and we had to sort out the exact wording. We
  added it *because* we want to support projects like knoppix and yet we
  still get this sort of crap. sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

** since he refers to our current distribution license in his comments and
   asks you to read it, he can't claim ignorance of its contents, which then
   strongly suggests that he's just plain biased (perhaps because we're not
   "pure" by OSS standards. yes! we are the non-OSS heathen! run, run away!!)


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From: Daniel Hulme
Subject: Re: povray license prevents free distribution by commercial folks?
Date: 13 Sep 2005 19:00:53
Message: <20050913200054.2603166c@dh286.pem.cam.ac.uk>
> (perhaps because we're not "pure" by OSS standards. yes! we are the
> non-OSS heathen! run, run away!!)
You forgot to ring your bell and shout "unclean".

-- 
Six is a number perfect in itself, and not because God created the world
in six days;  rather the contrary is true.  God created the world in six
days because this number is perfect,  and it would remain perfect,  even
if the work of the six days did not exist.              -- St. Augustine


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