Gilles Tran wrote:
> 
> For the German-speaking people, Oliver Deussen's book about digital plant
> modelling is now available.
> [...]

It might be interesting that although the book seems to focus on xfrog it
also seems to cover more general aspects and might also be interesting for
those not using the program.  The sample chapter available on the site is
mainly about the technical ideas behind xfrog, content is quite similar to
the english language paper on:

http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/ST2/cg/publikationen/subframes/deussen/cga_plants.pdf

Another part available as pdf is an introductory tutorial for xfrog - but
it is in german language.


As a side note - it could be useful to cross-post things here to
povray.general so those who have comments can make them there.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 31 Dec. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

I think that if I will be able to complete the following features
(which are in my wish list for future releases) in POV-Tree it will
be close to Xfrog  ;)  The only everlasting  problem is...  a lack
of time :(

- Interactive mesh editor which will allow to
  delete/move/rotate/scale elements in preview
  window. It could be used for final tuning of the tree.

- Interactive Leaf Editor. It could be used for
  mesh leaf modelling

- Wizard which will guide you through several steps
  for tree creation. So that it won't be necessary
  to specify all parameters.

- OpenGL support. Using OpenGL POV-Tree could have
  much faster preview. But there are also some
  drawbacks. It will be platform specific because
  OpenGL is a platform specific library. Also for
  OpenGL you have to download additional Java3D
  package which is additional 4 MBytes or so. Maybe
  it makes sense to make two versions of POV-Tree
  one w/ and the other w/o OpenGL.

- Effects tab with the following features:
  * Snow
  * Lights (like Christmas lights on trees)
  * Wind
  * Gravity

- Prepare more image maps for leaves and blossoms

- Prepare more examples and scene files

- Mesh Import

Gena.


Christoph Hormann wrote:

> Gilles Tran wrote:
> >
> > For the German-speaking people, Oliver Deussen's book about digital plant
> > modelling is now available.
> > [...]
>
> It might be interesting that although the book seems to focus on xfrog it
> also seems to cover more general aspects and might also be interesting for
> those not using the program.  The sample chapter available on the site is
> mainly about the technical ideas behind xfrog, content is quite similar to
> the english language paper on:
>
> http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/ST2/cg/publikationen/subframes/deussen/cga_plants.pdf
>
> Another part available as pdf is an introductory tutorial for xfrog - but
> it is in german language.
>
> As a side note - it could be useful to cross-post things here to
> povray.general so those who have comments can make them there.
>
> Christoph
>
> --
> POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
> HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
> Last updated 31 Dec. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

Gena wrote:
> 
> I think that if I will be able to complete the following features
> (which are in my wish list for future releases) in POV-Tree it will
> be close to Xfrog  ;)  The only everlasting  problem is...  a lack
> of time :(

Not really.  I have not used Xfrog but from what i have read the
technically outstanding thing about it is the possibility to combine
different predefined elements arbitrarily and adjust their parameters. 
It's a bit like a classical L-System where the replacement rules are not
fixed but can vary throughout the iteration process. By designing the tree
the user chooses which replacement rule (from a set supplied, i don't know
if Xfrog allowes to create own rules) is to be applied where.  And in
addition you can of course adjust the parameters of the rules.  

Tomtree and other tree include files on the other hand have a fixed set of
rules.  The parameters allow fairly detailed adjustments of course but you
can't change the basic principles.  

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 31 Dec. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

Hi,

I'm proud of having an image of mine included in the Deussen book on plant
modelling.
But the xfrog trees fail in good branch / trunk connections. Of course this
is true for most tree generators so far.
But recently I found this:
http://www.polas.net/trees/treesdesigner1.html
This program, a Lightwave plugin, makes the most realistic branch trunk
joints.
A second feature are the advanced UV-mapping features of "Treesdesigner".
If you can implement this two features, Pov-Ray would be outstanding in
making natural scenes.

But your little java tool is very useful as it is, thank you for it!



Norbert



"Gena" <obu### [at] mailcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3E4AE453.5A3EEDE4@mail.com...
>
> I think that if I will be able to complete the following features
> (which are in my wish list for future releases) in POV-Tree it will
> be close to Xfrog  ;)  The only everlasting  problem is...  a lack
> of time :(
>
> - Interactive mesh editor which will allow to
>   delete/move/rotate/scale elements in preview
>   window. It could be used for final tuning of the tree.
>
> - Interactive Leaf Editor. It could be used for
>   mesh leaf modelling
>
> - Wizard which will guide you through several steps
>   for tree creation. So that it won't be necessary
>   to specify all parameters.
>
> - OpenGL support. Using OpenGL POV-Tree could have
>   much faster preview. But there are also some
>   drawbacks. It will be platform specific because
>   OpenGL is a platform specific library. Also for
>   OpenGL you have to download additional Java3D
>   package which is additional 4 MBytes or so. Maybe
>   it makes sense to make two versions of POV-Tree
>   one w/ and the other w/o OpenGL.
>
> - Effects tab with the following features:
>   * Snow
>   * Lights (like Christmas lights on trees)
>   * Wind
>   * Gravity
>
> - Prepare more image maps for leaves and blossoms
>
> - Prepare more examples and scene files
>
> - Mesh Import
>
> Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Christoph Hormann wrote:

> Not really.  I have not used Xfrog but from what i have read the
> technically outstanding thing about it is the possibility to combine
> different predefined elements arbitrarily and adjust their parameters.
> It's a bit like a classical L-System where the replacement rules are not
> fixed but can vary throughout the iteration process. By designing the tree
> the user chooses which replacement rule (from a set supplied, i don't know
> if Xfrog allowes to create own rules) is to be applied where.  And in
> addition you can of course adjust the parameters of the rules.

I agree that there is different algorithm behind each tree generator.
But for me it doesn't matter which algorithm you use if the result is good.

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Norbert Kern wrote:

> But recently I found this:
> http://www.polas.net/trees/treesdesigner1.html
> This program, a Lightwave plugin, makes the most realistic branch trunk
> joints.

I think this is mainly due to NURBS. I believe that can be achieved
using blobs as well. It's not so easy to do with mesh though.

> A second feature are the advanced UV-mapping features of "Treesdesigner".
> If you can implement this two features, Pov-Ray would be outstanding in
> making natural scenes.

I think all that is doable and if you wish you can participate in POV-Tree
development :) The source files will be available after final 1.0 release.
There is only one concern from Tom Aust regarding opening sources
that somebody will write DXF export and will use use it in commercial
purposes.

> But your little java tool is very useful as it is, thank you for it!

Thank you! Hopefully it will be even better :)

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Gena wrote:
> 
> Norbert Kern wrote:
> 
> > But recently I found this:
> > http://www.polas.net/trees/treesdesigner1.html
> > This program, a Lightwave plugin, makes the most realistic branch trunk
> > joints.
> 
> I think this is mainly due to NURBS. I believe that can be achieved
> using blobs as well. It's not so easy to do with mesh though.

Blobs (at least POV-Ray's polynomial blobs) are not that good in creating
such joints.  Note that apart from the highly mechanically optimized
transit nature creates for joints between branches there is also usually a
strong change of surface structure and coloring in such areas.  The
program Norbert mentioned does not seem to take care of this either.  

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 31 Dec. 2002 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Post a reply to this message

Christoph Hormann wrote:

> Blobs (at least POV-Ray's polynomial blobs) are not that good in creating
> such joints.

I'll try to modify TOMTREE and see if that works or not. Right now
branches and trunk in TOMTREE are different blobs. I hope it's possible
to make it as one blob. Though there is a drawback for such approach -
branches will start to interact with each other :)

> Note that apart from the highly mechanically optimized
> transit nature creates for joints between branches there is also usually a
> strong change of surface structure and coloring in such areas.  The
> program Norbert mentioned does not seem to take care of this either.

Maybe using separate texture for each blob element could help here.

Gena.

Post a reply to this message

Am Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:13:19 -0800 hat Gena <obu### [at] mailcom> geschrieben:
Right now
> branches and trunk in TOMTREE are different blobs.

The main reason for the extensive transformations in TomTree is the fact 
that trunk, branches and twigs are one blob. 

Greetings 
Tom

Post a reply to this message

Tom Aust wrote:

> Am Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:13:19 -0800 hat Gena <obu### [at] mailcom> geschrieben:
> Right now
> > branches and trunk in TOMTREE are different blobs.
>
> The main reason for the extensive transformations in TomTree is the fact
> that trunk, branches and twigs are one blob.

Oops! You are right. It's one blob already. Maybe it's possible to optimize
the logic in this case using just one loop for those elements and apply common
transformations in one loop (?) Because right now there are many repetitions.

We are going out of scope of this thread though :)

Gena.

>
>
> Greetings
> Tom

Post a reply to this message