 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Bill DeWitt" wrote:
> "Rune" wrote:
> For example we could say that logos can only be
> submitted to the contest if there's at least 3
> persons who supports it. Logos that nobody will
> support has no chance of winning anyway.
>
> I preemptively give my support for -every-
> submission. Now they only need two.
Well, actually I meant that each person could give *one* support only.
> This seems to me to be just a method of
> pre-voting and would cast away any people who
> prefer to send theirs in without previous
> critique.
I personally wouldn't like to see 100+ logos on the voting page (for
bandwidth reasons mainly), so I thought we could "filter out" the logos that
has no chance of winning anyway. That way we could for example prevent one
person from submitting lots of different versions of the same logo, if some
of the versions are not popular at all anyway.
Maybe it would be better if each logo needed one supporter only, or maybe
it's not a good suggestion at all.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Rune" <run### [at] iname com> wrote in message
news:39295333@news.povray.org...
> "Bill DeWitt" wrote:
> > "Rune" wrote:
> > For example we could say that logos can only be
> > submitted to the contest if there's at least 3
> > persons who supports it. Logos that nobody will
> > support has no chance of winning anyway.
> >
> > I preemptively give my support for -every-
> > submission. Now they only need two.
>
> Well, actually I meant that each person could give *one* support only.
No! Please!
This does exactly what you want to avoid : it limits the total number of
logo to 1/3 of the number of people willing to give their votes - so
probably to 1/3 of the number of people frequenting this ng, if one admits
they all have an interest in the logo contest. I think this is much more
restricting then what I proposed : number of logos limited by [3-5]*(number
of informed people), as opposed to (number of informed people)/3.
> I personally wouldn't like to see 100+ logos on the voting page (for
> bandwidth reasons mainly), so I thought we could "filter out" the logos
that
> has no chance of winning anyway. That way we could for example prevent one
> person from submitting lots of different versions of the same logo, if
some
> of the versions are not popular at all anyway.
er... if they are just minor variations of the same logo, most people would
support most variations. Hence, the author will have to choose himself
because of the support requirement. Which is exactly what I advocate.
> Maybe it would be better if each logo needed one supporter only,
I suppose an author cannot support himself. This still restrict the total
number of logos to (informed people)/2.
> or maybe
> it's not a good suggestion at all.
I think the idea is a good one, but that it would be much work to make a
workable implementation.
Povingly,
Philippe
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> wrote in message
news:3929532c@news.povray.org...
> > If the voters are mainly those who haunts these groups,
> > I am fairly confident that they are capable of such
> > thinking.
>
> If I see a color logo with lots of details and effects, I will not be able
> to tell how it will look in a simple black and white version. Therefore I
> would like to *see* the black and white version.
What can I say???
> > I believe most other Povray users can too. Nonetheless,
> > I understand your concern - my way of dealing with it
> > would be to educate the voters : guidelines for voters.
> > (Maybe I am a bit too confident and naive.)
>
> Hmm, would that be like saying to the voters, "When deciding if a logo is
> good, try to imagine how it would look in just black and white (...)".
>
> Why shouldn't we instead simply *show* them how it looks in black and
white?
No, what I say is: if the author, who was toroughly informed, choosed to not
include a B/W version, was it a good choice? Was he able to show you things
that are, after viewing them, more important/difficult to see/visualise then
the B/W version? Or was he trying to impress you with effects and to mask
his logo's lack of substance?
Hence: author responsability.
> > I see some potential problems. (1)Deadline and
> > the collecting of support. Last-minute entrants
> > would have a hard time getting support. Could
> > support be given on drafts?
>
> We could maybe have a period meant for collecting support.
I can see a designer not working on his logo if it is not already submitted.
If the "support" phase needs the logos to be submitted/locked, then it
really is a voting.
> > One wild suggestion : first logo could be "free"
> > (no support). Possibly, successive logos could
> > need a growing number of support...
>
> I personally don't see what the reason for such a rule would be. It would
> (again) be like telling people that it is preferred that each person make
a
> few logos only, and I don't see the reason for that. I think, let the
voters
> decide instead, either by using the "support method" or by not limit the
> submissions at all.
I think any protocol limiting the total number of logos is telling peoples
that we prefer to see few logos. I proposed the "growing number of support,
starting at 0" rule to address a few shortcoming of the "3 supports" method,
such as less restricting the total number of logos, giving a chance to an
isolated author (with few chance of getting a support) or facilitating
last-minute entries.
Povingly,
Philippe
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> wrote :
>
> Well, actually I meant that each person could give *one* support only.
>
That would limit us to (number of voters) / (number of required
"support" votes) total images. Not what we want I think. If this is
important enough to do it is important enough to allow any and all
submissions and let those who want to vote deal with the download issues.
Anything else is either severely restricting the number of submissions
or blatant pre-voting.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
OK, let's just drop the whole idea of restricting the number of logos. Let's
say it's up to the individual logo designers not to submit too many versions
of the same logo. I was not sure it was a good idea after all. It helped to
get some feedback!
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Philippe Debar" <phi### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:392ba4ba@news.povray.org...
>
> "Rune" wrote:
> > If I see a color logo with lots of details and
> > effects, I will not be able to tell how it will
> > look in a simple black and white version.
> > Therefore I would like to *see* the black and
> > white version.
>
> What can I say???
Take Chris Colefax's logo for example. I have some idea what it will look
like in black and white, but I can't tell for sure if it will look nice
before I have seen it.
> No, what I say is: if the author, who was toroughly
> informed, choosed to not include a B/W version, was
> it a good choice? Was he able to show you things
> that are, after viewing them, more important/difficult
> to see/visualise then the B/W version? Or was he
> trying to impress you with effects and to mask his
> logo's lack of substance?
>
> Hence: author responsability.
The point here is that there's a RULE saying the the logos must work in
black and white, and there's a reason that rule were made. Therefore the
voters should be able to see how the logo looks in black and white.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> wrote in message
news:39344179@news.povray.org...
> The point here is that there's a RULE saying the the logos must work in
> black and white, and there's a reason that rule were made. Therefore the
> voters should be able to see how the logo looks in black and white.
I agree completely. What I believe in is:
1) everybody knows the logo should work in B/W;
2) voters will vote accordingly (or not, if they do not agree with point 1);
3) author choose what they submit, including if they submit a b/w image and
knowing the potential consequences.
Hence authors who:
- do not agree with point 1,
or
- think they can use the avalaible space to show something they believe more
important,
can act accordingly. And let the voters judge - it _is_ their job. If a
voter think an author as mis-used the avalaible space, preferring to show
fancy FX rather then a logo, he can score this logo very low.
OTOH, if an author think the B/W version is important (as I think it is), he
will include it. If he is unsure, he will follow the guidelines and be on
the safe side. And I carry this line of reasonning to all formats: so I'd
only fix a total submission size, letting each author choose how he wants to
use it (why not its own html presentation page?).
Now, I do not pretend I am right or that you are wrong. It is only my
opinion: these are justs the rules I would use if I were to organise the
contest. Just my personnal taste.
I am glad you are back. I hope your HD was left undamaged.
Povingly,
Philippe
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Philippe Debar" wrote:
> "Rune" wrote:
> > The point here is that there's a RULE saying the
> > the logos must work in black and white, and there's
> > a reason that rule were made. Therefore the voters
> > should be able to see how the logo looks in black
> > and white.
>
> I agree completely. What I believe in is:
> 1) everybody knows the logo should work in B/W;
> 2) voters will vote accordingly (or not, if they do
> not agree with point 1);
> 3) author choose what they submit, including if they
> submit a b/w image and knowing the potential
> consequences.
>
> Hence authors who:
>
> - do not agree with point 1,
But point 1 is a rule. Normally you have to follow rules even if you don't
agree with them.
> or
> - think they can use the avalaible space to show
> something they believe more important,
That would still be breaking a rule.
> can act accordingly.
That would be saying: "We have made some specific rules for this contest,
but it is ok not to follow them." That doesn't make sense I think.
> And let the voters judge - it _is_ their job.
The voters' job is to judge among the logos that follow the rules of the
contest.
> OTOH, if an author think the B/W version is important (as I think it is),
According to the rules the b/w version IS important.
> he will include it. If he is unsure, he will follow
> the guidelines and be on the safe side. And I carry
> this line of reasonning to all formats: so I'd only
> fix a total submission size, letting each author
> choose how he wants to use it (why not its own html
> presentation page?).
Because a good logo has certain qualities that can not be discussed (in my
opinion). We are only interested in potential GOOD logos (naturally), so all
logos should follow the certain requirements that a good logo follows.
> Now, I do not pretend I am right or that you are wrong.
> It is only my opinion: these are justs the rules I
> would use if I were to organise the contest. Just my
> personnal taste.
Same here. (I'm just discussing, I'm not in my role as organizer.)
> I am glad you are back.
Thanks! :-)
> I hope your HD was left undamaged.
Depends on your definition of "undamaged"...
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Rune wrote:
> The voters' job is to judge among the logos that follow the rules of the
> contest.
The voters job is to help determine which logo best represents POV-Ray.
The rules exist merely to refine the process of finding the best logo.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
"Ken" wrote:
> Rune wrote:
>
> > The voters' job is to judge among the logos
> > that follow the rules of the contest.
>
> The voters job is to help determine which logo
> best represents POV-Ray.
>
> The rules exist merely to refine the process
> of finding the best logo.
I think yours and mine statement does not nessesarily contradict each other.
THE GOAL is to find THE LOGO that best represents POV-Ray.
At first we have all the logos.
Some of the logos does not have potential to be THE LOGO because they don't
follow the requirements (rules) that we (by voting in the newsgroup) have
fixed. Those logos are rejected.
The rest of the logos are those that follow the rules. These are the logos
that we vote about.
In theory the voters judge among all the logos, but in practice we can
filter some of the logos out before the voting, becase they don't follow the
fixed requirements.
However, since the people who make the logos will know the rules, they
probably won't make logos that don't follow the rules, and therefore we
probably won't have to reject any logos at all.
This is how I imagine things to be anyway.
Greetings,
Rune
---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
