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From: Philippe Debar
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 06:50:31
Message: <39193ef7@news.povray.org>
Yes, it should... but (there always is one)...

For this rule/guideline, as with all other contest rules, I adopt the
following attitude : the rule must be obeyed except if the benefits of
breaking it outweighs the benefits gained by applying the rule. Talk about a
subjective notion :-)

So, it would be better if the logo was presentable in B/W, but if there is
an outstanding logo that does not follow the rule, I'll forget the rule and
that logo would get my preference. Now, I would penalise an average-quality
logo (to my taste, by comparison to the other submitted logos) that breaks
this rule - or any other one. This is why I prefer the "guideline" word.


Povingly


Philippe


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From: Franks
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 16:06:02
Message: <3919c12a@news.povray.org>
> Must the logo be presentable and easy recognizable when viewed in just
black
> and white (with no shades of gray)? (yes or no)
yes, I feel that the image must be able to be presented in black and white


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 16:54:08
Message: <3919cc70@news.povray.org>
"Peter J. Holzer" wrote:
> You are voting on your own questions in
> public? Does that count as an election
> campaign? :-)

No, I just thoughy I had as much right to vote as everybody else.

> ObVote: yes.

What does ObVote mean? It is your vote right?

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
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From: Rune
Subject: Re: PLC: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 16:54:12
Message: <3919cc74@news.povray.org>

> Short answer : No
>
> In pure Black & White : No
> In shades of gray : Yes
>
> Pure black and white is too destructive
> and would surely ruin any logo (even the
> best one).
> The size of the logo is already a limit
> in itself, turning it into B&W would
> make it unrecognizable.

Just to eliminate confusion:

When I say no shades of gray I mean in the logo itself only. Anti-aliasing
is not a part of the logo itself, so shades of gray can be used for
anti-aliasing.

Having got that extra bit of information, do you still want to vote "no"?

If you do not respond to this message I will presume that you still want to
vote "no".

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 16:54:13
Message: <3919cc75@news.povray.org>
"Philippe Debar" wrote:
> Yes, it should...

I ask a question " *Must* the logos bla bla bla... "
To which you answer " Yes, it *should*... "

I use the word "must" while you use the word "should".

Your answer does not fit to the question I asked.
Because of this I cannot accept your vote.

However, I will take note of your opinion and arguments.

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Peter Popov
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 17:20:53
Message: <ackjhsorirt2na2ak719s4msactcc3q2vf@4ax.com>
On Wed, 10 May 2000 22:50:47 +0200, "Rune" <run### [at] inamecom>
wrote:

>I use the word "must" while you use the word "should".

To avoid misunderstandings, please refer to RFC2119 located at
ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc2119.txt for the standardised meanings
of: "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD",
"SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY" and "OPTIONAL".


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] usanet
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 10 May 2000 18:36:10
Message: <3919e45a@news.povray.org>
"Peter Popov" wrote:
> "Rune" wrote:
> >I use the word "must" while you use the word "should".
>
> To avoid misunderstandings, please
> refer to RFC2119 located at
> ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc2119.txt
> for the standardised meanings of:
> "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL",
> "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT",
> "RECOMMENDED", "MAY" and "OPTIONAL".

Thank you, I will have a look at it when I'm able to reach it.

However, in this case Philippe could see from the context what I meant, and
I could see from the context what he meant.

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Fabien Hénon
Subject: Re: PLC: Black and white or not?
Date: 11 May 2000 16:31:35
Message: <391B1874.90F9714D@club-internet.fr>
Just to be clear :
I would say yes for a picture with 256 colors.

I would say no for a picture with only 2 colors ( hence without antialasing )





> > Short answer : No
> >
> > In pure Black & White : No
> > In shades of gray : Yes
> >
> > Pure black and white is too destructive
> > and would surely ruin any logo (even the
> > best one).
> > The size of the logo is already a limit
> > in itself, turning it into B&W would
> > make it unrecognizable.
>
> Just to eliminate confusion:
>
> When I say no shades of gray I mean in the logo itself only. Anti-aliasing
> is not a part of the logo itself, so shades of gray can be used for
> anti-aliasing.
>
> Having got that extra bit of information, do you still want to vote "no"?
>
> If you do not respond to this message I will presume that you still want to
> vote "no".
>
> Greetings,
>
> Rune
>
> ---
> Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
> Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
> The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
> miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Rune
Subject: Re: PLC: Black and white or not?
Date: 11 May 2000 18:14:47
Message: <391b30d7@news.povray.org>

> Just to be clear :
> I would say yes for a picture with 256 colors.
> I would say no for a picture with only 2 colors ( hence without
antialasing )

Anti-aliasing is not really a part of the logo itself, so anti-aliasing is
allowed.

I will take note that you vote "yes".

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!


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From: Philippe Debar
Subject: Re: Black and white or not?
Date: 12 May 2000 03:53:58
Message: <391bb896@news.povray.org>
"Peter Popov" <pet### [at] usanet> wrote in message
news:ackjhsorirt2na2ak719s4msactcc3q2vf@4ax.com...
> To avoid misunderstandings, please refer to RFC2119 located at
> ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc2119.txt for the standardised meanings
> of: "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD",
> "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY" and "OPTIONAL".


I just never imagined there were RFC-standardised meanings. Kind of scary.


Philippe


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