Fabien Mosen wrote:
> 
> What we've been doing is rather an "icon competition", which is

That is kind of the impression I was getting too.
 
> However, as Ken points out, it's a little limitating, and we could
> need a wider approach.

I am going to post an image in p.b.i. of a logo design I was working
on for the TAG. While it may never be adopted by the TAG, and there
are problems with scene design and image size, it does show what a
little imagination can do for representing a concept. Anyway I was
kind of happy with the results even if it doesn't qualify as "logo"
quality material.


-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Fabien Mosen wrote:

> For example, I've seen Apple's graphical chart, and, on two busy
> pages, it explains how the logo is constructed, how you should
> put the colors, how you should place it on bags, soft boxes,
> trucks, which font to use, etc, etc...
> 
> I'm trying to find it on the web, but didn't have any success...

I really don't understand what you are talking about so if you find
the site you are talking about I would like to see it. 

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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Ken wrote:

> I really don't understand what you are talking about so if you find
> the site you are talking about I would like to see it.

It was not a site, it was in a graphism magazine.  At the time,
I kept a photocopy of it, and, miracle, I managed to find it back
in the huge amount of disorder that surrounds me !

I uploaded it temporarily at :
 http://users.skynet.be/bs936509/apple-gc.jpg

Beware, it's 600 Kb heavy.

Tough our needs are somewhat different (I hardly imagine a POV-Ray
truck !), this shows how a group/company can manage to ensure
graphical coherence in every present and future use of a product.

The term "graphical chart" I used was a direct translation from
the french expression; if someone know the right english expression
for such a document...

Fabien.

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"Ken" <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote :
>
> I really don't understand what you are talking about so if you find
> the site you are talking about I would like to see it.
>

    I think he is talking about a 'theme'. Not just a logo, but a whole
system of integrated graphics and recommended display methods.

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On Sun, 30 Apr 2000 02:03:36 +0200, Rune wrote:
>"Ken" wrote:
>> The last round had all entries restricted
>> to a square aspect ration of 1:1. I see no
>> reason for this.
>
>The logo isn't limited to a square. Only the max width and height of the
>image containing the logo.

>> I think that an aspect ration
>> where the horizontal dimension exceeds the
>> vertical dimension should be allowed.

Why limit it to "horizontal" logos? Vertical shapes are more
eyecatching.

>There must be some limit. The question is how the limit should be defined.

How about the number of pixels? This way non-square logos wouldn't be
penalized as much. A 3.2:1 ratio logo would be presented at 112x35
pixels while a 1:1 ratio logo would be presented at 64x64 pixels. Of
course somebody might abuse this and create a 4096x1 logo, but somehow I
don't think that would be very popular :-).

Of course the logo itself isn't limited to any resolution. The pixel
limit only serves to show how the logo looks at a low resolution.

	hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| |   | hjp### [at] wsracat      |    -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       zum Thema Portale in at.linux

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On Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:54:17 -0700, Ken wrote:
>In an electronic computer environment like POV-Ray and the WWW why would
>you bother with a low resolution version of a logo ? I personally do not
>see the benefit. I mean if we were creating a logo for illustrator
>or some other print based program I could see a reason for it but not
>in a compuer graphics related industry. Reach for the stars..........

Quite the contrary: Printers have very high resolutions (at least in
black and white), but monitors are limited to low resolutions (typically
75 to 100 ppi). If you want your logo to be used at web pages it should
be recognizable at low resolutions.

	hp

-- 
   _  | Peter J. Holzer    | Nicht an Tueren mangelt es,
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR       | sondern an der Einrichtung (aka Content).
| |   | hjp### [at] wsracat      |    -- Ale### [at] univieacat
__/   | http://www.hjp.at/ |       zum Thema Portale in at.linux

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"Peter J. Holzer" wrote:
> "Rune" wrote:
> > There must be some limit. The question
> > is how the limit should be defined.
>
> How about the number of pixels?

I thought about that; it might be a good idea.
Only problem will be that page showing all the logos will look quite messy,
but that's a minor thing...

Greetings,

Rune

---
Updated April 25: http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk
Containing 3D images, stereograms, tutorials,
The POV Desktop Theme, 350+ raytracing jokes,
miscellaneous other things, and a lot of fun!

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Rune wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Before I go on any further with the POV-Ray Logo Contest I would like to
> know the opinion of the POV-Team regarding this. I though maybe one from the
> TAG-Team could inform them and ask them?

 Below you will find the official response from the POV-Team regarding
your logo competition. Items 1-3 identify their position regarding the
competition in general and items 4-6 cover a few legal expectations
they have if they do indeed adopt one of the submissions as an official
logo for the program.

This official statement should be included in your competition rules
so there are no misunderstandings with those participating in it.

With regards to what rules or limitations you may wish to impose on the
competition, from a design stand point, that is up to you and the rest
of the POV-Ray user community to decide for yourselves (see item 2).
The POV-Team has no plans to be involved with this part of the process.

If you need further clarification from me feel free to ask and I will
provide what information I can.

Ken



The official position of the POV-Team for this competition is as follows:

1.) Although the logo competition is not an officially sponsored event,
    the POV-Team is very pleased with the community enthusiasm and is
    interested in finding a logo for POV-Ray. We are looking forward to
    seeing what the users of POV-Ray can offer, and if we find a logo
    that captures our imagination we will be happy to adopt it as an
    official logo for POV-Ray.

2.) The POV-Team will closely watch and monitor the competition
    but will not participate in the management of it. This is
    the sole responsibility of the POV-Ray user community and
    its organizers.

3.) The POV-Team reserves the right to reject any "winning" entry
    they feel does not meet with their expectations. A second or
    third place entry is just as likely as a first place entry
    to be chosen by the POV-Team as their official logo, or none
    at all. This is at the sole discretion of the POV-Team and
    will be decided internally by them.

4.) The POV-Team will be granted the right to use the logo however
    they choose. This includes using the logo at the povray.org web
    site and for the purposes of advertising POV-Ray in any form of
    electronic or printed medium (such as CD covers). Artwork
    submitted to this competition shall remain the property of those
    submitting it but they shall also grant irrevocable equal rights
    to the POV-Team to said material.

5.) The following: "POV-Ray", "Persistence of Vision", "POV-Team" and
    "POV-Help" are trademarks of the POV-Team. Artists contributing to
    this competition are not granted any rights over our trademarks.
    It is desirable that submissions that utilize one of our trademarks
    bear a TM symbol but it is not a requirement. If a TM symbol is
    added it should be done so in a subtle and unobtrusive manner.

6.) The POV-Team reserves the right to modify or change any entry
    they choose as their logo (with permission of the original artist).
    Source code (where applicable) should be provided for each entry
    so that the POV-Team may recreate the logo at any resolution or
    aspect ratio they might need.


-- POV-Team

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Ken wrote:

> The official position of the POV-Team for this competition is as follows:
 
...
> 3.) The POV-Team reserves the right to reject any "winning" entry
>     they feel does not meet with their expectations. A second or
>     third place entry is just as likely as a first place entry
>     to be chosen by the POV-Team as their official logo, or none
>     at all. This is at the sole discretion of the POV-Team and
>     will be decided internally by them.

Very good !  So, we don't need to vote, and could concentrate on
the designs !  (I firmly believe that pseudo-democracy has nothing
to do with any creative process)

Fabien.

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Fabien Mosen wrote:

> > 3.) The POV-Team reserves the right to reject any "winning" entry
> >     they feel does not meet with their expectations. A second or
> >     third place entry is just as likely as a first place entry
> >     to be chosen by the POV-Team as their official logo, or none
> >     at all. This is at the sole discretion of the POV-Team and
> >     will be decided internally by them.
> 
> Very good !  So, we don't need to vote, and could concentrate on
> the designs !  (I firmly believe that pseudo-democracy has nothing
> to do with any creative process)

That is a good point. It is up to the participants to decide if
they want to hold a voting period. It might be good for pointing
the POV-Team towards the popular entries but their decision will
be based on what they themselves like and not what the users say
they have to use. I hate to say it point blank but the POV-Team
may decide not to use any of the logos submitted. Lets call that
a very pessimistic point of view on my part.

The impression I got from them was that they really are interested
to see what comes from this and it is a good opportunity for someone
to contribute something to POV-Ray that very few people will ever get
a chance at. Heck, I might even try to contribute now that I know
there is a chance it will be used by the POV-Team, officialy.

-- 
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/

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