"Jim Holsenback" <jho### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
news:414e0d65@news.povray.org...

> Considering dropping out ..... sheesh

Cool. One down, 2000 to go, my chances are getting better all the
time...   ;)

   ~Steve~

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> 
> And remember, the same kind of post processing rules have worked for the
> IRTC well for many years.

No!

To make it perfectly clear: while the IRTC allows a broad range of post 
processing the POVCOMP does not allow any.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 06 Jul. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

Jim Holsenback <jho### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> this is why I used the +FN command line switch .... so that povray could 
> produce a file that would require no post processing whatsoever.

  What would you do if the produced PNG is bigger than what the rules allow?

  It's quite taken for granted that the submitted image should be converted
to a JPEG with optimal compression settings (that is, does not show any
JPEG artifacts but is well inside the size limits).
  Depending on the contents of the image, it might not be possible at all
to create a PNG which fits the file size requirements.

-- 
plane{-x+y,-1pigment{bozo color_map{[0rgb x][1rgb x+y]}turbulence 1}}
sphere{0,2pigment{rgbt 1}interior{media{emission 1density{spherical
density_map{[0rgb 0][.5rgb<1,.5>][1rgb 1]}turbulence.9}}}scale
<1,1,3>hollow}text{ttf"timrom""Warp".1,0translate<-1,-.1,2>}//  - Warp -

In article <414e0d65@news.povray.org> , "Jim Holsenback" 
<jho### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:

>> "No post processing of any kind is permitted."
>
> this is why I used the +FN command line switch .... so that povray could
> produce a file that would require no post processing whatsoever. I was
> previously converting bmp file to jpg. Hmmm .... how can ya follow the rules
> when it appears that the rules are a moving target. No doubt I'll get flamed
> for this and tomorrow I'll regret doing it but .... hey is this anyway to
> run a contest???? Considering dropping out ..... sheesh

We are just making them more precise. The previous change was to make the
detail image requirements less demanding.  And with this change, well, there
is practically no work involved for you.  Just open your favorite image
editor and create a JPEG file.  A dozen mouseclicks at most, that is all.

FYI, you could not have submitted the partial PNG output of POV-Ray
generated for the detail images anyway.  So for the detail images you would
always have needed an image editor.  Not to mention that PNG images POV-Ray
generates are far from well compressed because the are compressed line by
line to allow the continue trace feature to work.  As such, submitting a PNG
image directly output by POV-Ray was a particular bad idea to start with.

    Thorsten

In article <414e0eb6$1@news.povray.org> , Nicolas Calimet 
<pov### [at] freefr>  wrote:

>> Anybody unable to understand that compressing an image is *not* post
>> processing in the sense of the rules should probably not be taking part -
>> you might consider it natural selection :-)
>
>  Thorsteeeeeennnnnn..........
>  ;-)
>
>  - NC
>
> PS: it would be a pity to discourage potential participants at that
> stage of the competition.

The smiley was there for a reason ;-)

    Thorsten

In article <414e90c2@news.povray.org> , Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg>  wrote:

>   Depending on the contents of the image, it might not be possible at all
> to create a PNG which fits the file size requirements.

Especially not with POV-Ray's line by line compression (the continue trace
feature).

    Thorsten

Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> So for the detail images you would
> always have needed an image editor.

No, the entry guidelines clearly mention that you can use a different 
camera for the detail views and even points to an include file for doing 
that.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 06 Jul. 2004 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message 
news:414e0a6e$1@news.povray.org...
> In article <414### [at] joplincom> , Leroy <lrw### [at] joplincom> 
> wrote:
>
>>> Well, given that POV-Ray does not write JPEG files, how else could you
>>> possibly get a JPEG file of a POV-Ray render?
>>
>> Then this line
>> "No post processing of any kind is permitted."
>> in Rule 4.Image D should be changed to advoid any confusion.
>
> No, there is no need to change any rules. Some basic intelligence is
> required of the competition participants:
>
> The sample images are JPEG and obviously JPEG images were always allowed.
> Anybody unable to understand that compressing an image is *not* post
> processing in the sense of the rules should probably not be taking part -
> you might consider it natural selection :-)
>
> And remember, the same kind of post processing rules have worked for the
> IRTC well for many years. Nobody even had a problem there either.  I would
> strongly advice to maybe use some common sense and not the lawyer mode of
> thinking.  It is much more productive to work on your images in the end!
>


Rule 4.d.
"Each image submitted has to be the direct result of a POV-Ray render.No 
post processing of any kind is permitted. The images have to be submitted in 
JPEG format. "

If, as Thorsten points out, "basic intelligence" is required, then the rules 
appear to contradict themselves in this case.  If it is not possible to get 
a JPEG as a direct result of a POV-Ray render, then we may wish to consider 
leaving out the first sentence, and adding something that says, "However, 
simply converting to the JPEG file format, and cropping of detail images is 
allowed as long as no other processing is done to the image."

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

In article <414ed30e$1@news.povray.org> , "Jeremy M. Praay" 
<jer### [at] questsoftwarecom> wrote:

> If, as Thorsten points out, "basic intelligence" is required, then the rules
> appear to contradict themselves in this case.  If it is not possible to get
> a JPEG as a direct result of a POV-Ray render, then we may wish to consider
> leaving out the first sentence, and adding something that says, "However,
> simply converting to the JPEG file format, and cropping of detail images is
> allowed as long as no other processing is done to the image."

Could we stop this pointless discussion?  Direct result does not say
"generated by POV-Ray".  Nobody had a problem with JPEG files that have
always been allowed before.  It is not like this is new, only PNG output has
been dropped.

    Thorsten

"Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote in message
news:414f0072@news.povray.org...
>
> Could we stop this pointless discussion?

Yes.  You were under no obligation to respond.
I'll gladly stop after this post.  So feel free to say
whatever you'd like.

> Direct result does not say "generated by POV-Ray".

No, but it does imply it.  Converting to a JPEG is not, in my opinion, a 
"direct result."

> Nobody had a problem with JPEG files that have
> always been allowed before.  It is not like this is new, only PNG output
> has been dropped.

At least three people, including me, have posted in this newsgroup stating
that this section is a little confusing.  I considered mentioning this
before the rule change, but since I keep getting responses like this from 
you, I didn't.

In the IRTC rules (5.f.i), it implies that converting to a JPEG is an
exception to the post-processing ban.  In other words, the IRTC considers
conversion to JPEG to be post-processing.  I don't know for a fact that
other versions of POV-Ray (like MegaPOV, MLPOV, etc.) do not allow direct
JPEG output, but it is a reasonable question.  The stakes of this
competition are much higher than the IRTC, and I would hate to see someone
disqualified for a simple rules violation.

I'm just trying to help.  Not everyone in this competition reads these
newsgroups, so a clarification on the rules page may be the right thing to
do.  But I do not make those decisions.  If you and the others feel it is
not necessary to clarify further, then I have no recourse.  Nevertheless, I
have stated my opinion, and you have already stated yours.

Thank you.

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com