POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : Moonlight Server Time
19 May 2024 23:17:35 EDT (-0400)
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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 27 Mar 2022 00:25:00
Message: <web.623fe6d097e56063cc71334a5cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 24/03/2022 om 19:00 schreef Chris R:
> > I have been discussing a collection of scenes I am working on where moonlight is
> > the primary lighting source over in povray.general.  Here is the first rendering
> > where there is only moonlight coming through a window with louvered blinds on a
> > chess table.  I will post followups with the same scene adding more light
> > sources as they complete.
> >
> > -- Chris R.
>
> I find them pretty convincing indeed. Especially the moonlight. Maybe I
> would prefer a scene where the moonlight would shine over a larger area
> of the scene (floor, parts of wall, etc) leaving less pitch black
> volumes of space in the scene, but I understand this is a wip and I wait
> for further developments. Very promising indeed.
>
> --
> Thomas

When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the wrong
position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera was too low
below the edge of the table.  It showed up much worse in the 16:9 aspect ratio.

Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.


-- Chris R.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 27 Mar 2022 03:04:08
Message: <62400c68$1@news.povray.org>
Op 27/03/2022 om 06:23 schreef Chris R:
> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the wrong
> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera was too low
> below the edge of the table.  It showed up much worse in the 16:9 aspect ratio.
> 
> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
> 
> 
> -- Chris R.

Indeed.

what are those light points beyond the blinds?

-- 
Thomas


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 27 Mar 2022 09:48:07
Message: <62406b17$1@news.povray.org>
Le 2022-03-27 à 03:04, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> Op 27/03/2022 om 06:23 schreef Chris R:
>> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the 
>> wrong
>> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera 
>> was too low
>> below the edge of the table.  It showed up much worse in the 16:9 
>> aspect ratio.
>>
>> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
>>
>>
>> -- Chris R.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> what are those light points beyond the blinds?
> 
My guess : a texture from skys.inc applied to a sky_sphere and no actual 
ground outside.


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 27 Mar 2022 18:00:00
Message: <web.6240de4497e56063cc71334a5cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

> > Op 27/03/2022 om 06:23 schreef Chris R:
> >> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the
> >> wrong
> >> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera
> >> was too low

> >> aspect ratio.
> >>
> >> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Chris R.
> >
> > Indeed.
> >
> > what are those light points beyond the blinds?
> >
> My guess : a texture from skys.inc applied to a sky_sphere and no actual
> ground outside.

You stole my thunder!

Pretty close; I don't use skys.inc, but I rolled my own star-sphere and forgot
to put a ground plane outside the window.

However, I haven't gone to fix it, because it also looks like the room is in a
tall building looking out over city lights, so I decided to keep it that way.

-- Chris R.


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 28 Mar 2022 08:50:00
Message: <web.6241ae8797e5606316086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
> > > Op 27/03/2022 om 06:23 schreef Chris R:
> > >> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the
> > >> wrong
> > >> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera
> > >> was too low
>
> > >> aspect ratio.
> > >>
> > >> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -- Chris R.
> > >
> > > Indeed.
> > >
> > > what are those light points beyond the blinds?
> > >
> > My guess : a texture from skys.inc applied to a sky_sphere and no actual
> > ground outside.
>
> You stole my thunder!
>
> Pretty close; I don't use skys.inc, but I rolled my own star-sphere and forgot
> to put a ground plane outside the window.
>
> However, I haven't gone to fix it, because it also looks like the room is in a
> tall building looking out over city lights, so I decided to keep it that way.
>
> -- Chris R.

I like the first shot, and also the sheve with plant composition, even better.
Such a scene should be unforgiving to non linearworflows (gamma 1 +srgb colors +
inverse square lights attenuation (new _0 model) + postrendered gamma 2.2)

Did you use no radiosity at all? because all of it seems really too dark. if you
activate it, make sure to give the sky_sphere a night horizion tint. An overall
raileigh scattering media may help the moonlight source bleed wider, and maybe
bloom slightly from side of the frame if placed properly.


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 28 Mar 2022 11:10:00
Message: <web.6241cf0997e56063cc71334a5cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> >
> > > > Op 27/03/2022 om 06:23 schreef Chris R:
> > > >> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the
> > > >> wrong
> > > >> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera
> > > >> was too low
> >
> > > >> aspect ratio.
> > > >>
> > > >> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -- Chris R.
> > > >
> > > > Indeed.
> > > >
> > > > what are those light points beyond the blinds?
> > > >
> > > My guess : a texture from skys.inc applied to a sky_sphere and no actual
> > > ground outside.
> >
> > You stole my thunder!
> >
> > Pretty close; I don't use skys.inc, but I rolled my own star-sphere and forgot
> > to put a ground plane outside the window.
> >
> > However, I haven't gone to fix it, because it also looks like the room is in a
> > tall building looking out over city lights, so I decided to keep it that way.
> >
> > -- Chris R.
>
> I like the first shot, and also the sheve with plant composition, even better.
> Such a scene should be unforgiving to non linearworflows (gamma 1 +srgb colors +
> inverse square lights attenuation (new _0 model) + postrendered gamma 2.2)
>
> Did you use no radiosity at all? because all of it seems really too dark. if you
> activate it, make sure to give the sky_sphere a night horizion tint. An overall
> raileigh scattering media may help the moonlight source bleed wider, and maybe
> bloom slightly from side of the frame if placed properly.

I do have radiosity enabled, although I haven't influenced it with the sky
sphere at all.  I have probably confused things with multiple versions of the
same scene in these discussions, so do you find even the latest chess board
closeup, (the 1920x1080 version) too dark for a moonlit scene?  The earlier
versions had the camera too low, so too much of the scene was in the shadow.


-- Chris R.


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From: Mr
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 31 Mar 2022 04:35:00
Message: <web.624565e497e5606316086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
>
> I do have radiosity enabled, although I haven't influenced it with the sky
> sphere at all.  I have probably confused things with multiple versions of the
> same scene in these discussions, so do you find even the latest chess board
> closeup, (the 1920x1080 version) too dark for a moonlit scene?  The earlier
> versions had the camera too low, so too much of the scene was in the shadow.
>
>
> -- Chris R.

Yes, all seem too dark, most more importantly too contrasted : the dark areas
are pitch black as if you hadn't applied the linear workflow which generally
rather creates slight nuances in such shadowed areas, those change everything in
the unconscious perception.

And all psychology left aside, the sky light is already very important even when
the sun is up,  providing a blue tint to every shadow, so imagine as the sun
disappears that this shadow (which is not actually darkness but blue  light from
the surrounding atmosphere) grows on everything before the moon rises. Then the
moon is more like a torch light in the middle of that, that's why factoring the
sky_sphere in radioisity would be important, and probably that's why most
artists tend to refer to the moonlight scenes as bluish. (though the moon beam
is lower kelvin colored). (scattering media might here provide some interesting
gradient if the wall hidden moon light source would be pointing almost straight
into the camera, bleeding its halo into the window sky ? but it depends on the
render time cost.)

The hard thing to balance in daylight scene is the strength of the sky and the
sun, but is even harder in moon light. because you must first find the relative
weight of both, as you did, but then blow them up in synch so as to really
compensate for eye adjustment or camera exposure (which POV doesn't have, or
does it?).

Also probably using a high dynamic range format as oopen EXR to tonemap it could
be a good flexibility tool.

Enjoy your journey to infinity and beyond! :-)


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From: Chris R
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 11 Apr 2022 13:50:00
Message: <web.625469ff97e5606364d5c4775cc1b6e@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > Op 24/03/2022 om 19:00 schreef Chris R:
> > > I have been discussing a collection of scenes I am working on where moonlight is
> > > the primary lighting source over in povray.general.  Here is the first rendering
> > > where there is only moonlight coming through a window with louvered blinds on a
> > > chess table.  I will post followups with the same scene adding more light
> > > sources as they complete.
> > >
> > > -- Chris R.
> >
> > I find them pretty convincing indeed. Especially the moonlight. Maybe I
> > would prefer a scene where the moonlight would shine over a larger area
> > of the scene (floor, parts of wall, etc) leaving less pitch black
> > volumes of space in the scene, but I understand this is a wip and I wait
> > for further developments. Very promising indeed.
> >
> > --
> > Thomas
>
> When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the wrong
> position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera was too low
> below the edge of the table.  It showed up much worse in the 16:9 aspect ratio.
>
> Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
>
>
> -- Chris R.
One last post on this project and then I'm moving on to something else.  This is
a view with the door open and a hall light on, and I added camera blur roughly
simulating a 50mm lens at f/4.


-- Chris R.


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Attachments:
Download 'scene-v9.2-hq-hd-rad11-p05-blur1.2-2022-04-10.png' (1063 KB)

Preview of image 'scene-v9.2-hq-hd-rad11-p05-blur1.2-2022-04-10.png'
scene-v9.2-hq-hd-rad11-p05-blur1.2-2022-04-10.png


 

From: Mr
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 5 May 2022 09:50:00
Message: <web.6273d51997e5606316086ed06830a892@news.povray.org>
"Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> > Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> > > Op 24/03/2022 om 19:00 schreef Chris R:
> > > > I have been discussing a collection of scenes I am working on where moonlight
is
> > > > the primary lighting source over in povray.general.  Here is the first
rendering
> > > > where there is only moonlight coming through a window with louvered blinds on
a
> > > > chess table.  I will post followups with the same scene adding more light
> > > > sources as they complete.
> > > >
> > > > -- Chris R.
> > >
> > > I find them pretty convincing indeed. Especially the moonlight. Maybe I
> > > would prefer a scene where the moonlight would shine over a larger area
> > > of the scene (floor, parts of wall, etc) leaving less pitch black
> > > volumes of space in the scene, but I understand this is a wip and I wait
> > > for further developments. Very promising indeed.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas
> >
> > When I rendered this as 1920x1080, I realized I had the camera in the wrong
> > position, (forgot to account for a "floor thickness"), so the camera was too low
> > below the edge of the table.  It showed up much worse in the 16:9 aspect ratio.
> >
> > Here is a version that fixes that, and makes it much less dark.
> >
> >
> > -- Chris R.
> One last post on this project and then I'm moving on to something else.  This is
> a view with the door open and a hall light on, and I added camera blur roughly
> simulating a 50mm lens at f/4.
>
>
> -- Chris R.

Easier to say than do, but I feel that is too bad you leave it aside, as the
potential for a hall of fame level pic is there ! the hardest part of lighting
is now PERFECT. We can really feel the time of night and moonshine tone keeping
brain awake.Softness of the shadows is really well underlining all that.  There
are only strange fireflies and too fractal looking materials for chess pawns.
But thanks for sharing that awesome work anyway !


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: Moonlight
Date: 5 May 2022 21:25:00
Message: <web.627478ba97e560632eadabda6e066e29@news.povray.org>
"Mr" <m******r******at_hotmail_dot_fr> wrote:
> "Chris R" <car### [at] comcastnet> wrote:
> >
> > One last post on this project and then I'm moving on...
>
> Easier to say than do, but I feel that is too bad you leave it aside, as the
> potential for a hall of fame level pic is there ! the hardest part of lighting
> is now PERFECT. We can really feel the time of night and moonshine tone keeping
> brain awake.

I agree. It is looking really nice and evocative.


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