Am 03.05.2017 um 05:37 schrieb Kenneth:

>> PS - I'm not sure if the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" is known worldwide, so for
>> anyone unfamiliar with it the historical context is from the Jonestown, Guyana
>> mass suicide incident in which hundreds of people knowingly drank grape Kool-Aid
>> poisoned with cyanide.
> 
> Yes, I remember that. It's still hard to believe that people can be so gullible,
> or blind to the idiocy of a charismatic 'leader.'

It's only hard to believe until the day you wake up and realize that
you've already been there, done that (figuratively speaking).

(Not saying that you have, mind you. Just speaking from personal
experience.)

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Am 03.05.2017 um 13:48 schrieb Bald Eagle:

> It's actually quite a bit more sinister than that.
> There was ample evidence suggesting and supporting that it was part of Project
> MK-Ultra and the whole thing was done intentionally from the beginning.
> When it all started to go sideways (from their warped perspective), they decided
> to scrub it, and most of the people didn't drink the punch (it wasn't brand-name
> Kool-Ade) they were either forcibly administered cyanide by mouth or injection,
> or shot.

I'm not buying the link to MK-Ultra. But yes, some may not have believed
the Flavor Aid to be actually laced (they had gone through the suicide
drill countless times before, but until then it had always turned out to
be just a test), and others were murdered as they refused to drink it. A
few individuals got away, AFAIK.

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On 2017-05-03 09:22 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
> Am 03.05.2017 um 05:37 schrieb Kenneth:
>> Yes, I remember that. It's still hard to believe that people can be so gullible,
>> or blind to the idiocy of a charismatic 'leader.'
>
> It's only hard to believe until the day you wake up and realize that
> you've already been there, done that (figuratively speaking).
>
> (Not saying that you have, mind you. Just speaking from personal
> experience.)

Tell me about it!  My religion had the fullness of Truth, and everyone 
else was drinking the Kool-Aid.  Boy, wasn't I lucky to have been born 
into the One True Religion?

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On 05/03/2017 09:10 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 02.05.2017 um 22:37 schrieb Dave Blandston:
>
>> PS - I'm not sure if the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" is known worldwide, so for
>> anyone unfamiliar with it the historical context is from the Jonestown, Guyana
>> mass suicide incident in which hundreds of people knowingly drank grape Kool-Aid
>> poisoned with cyanide. The poison Kool-Aid was in a vat labeled with a green
>> "C." Since then the term has been used to describe the act of compromising one's
>> integrity and adopting the unethical standards and methods of those in power in
>> order to advance within some corrupt organization.
>
> I've heard the expression in the more general sense of adopting someone
> else's bullshit ideology or values in blind faith.

That has been my understanding as well.  When my faith abandoned me (in 
the middle of a church service, no less), I did not feel comfortable 
remaining in a community whose very rationale as a community was that 
set of beliefs that I no longer shared.  As communities that are *not* 
faith-based are practically non-existent in my locale, I was forced to 
find explicitly non-believing communities on-line, and when they talk 
about "drinking the Kool-Aid," it always refers to swallowing dogma.

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On 2017-05-03 04:47 AM (-4), Dave Blandston wrote:
> Those old Coke ads are pretty cool. I'm not sure how to re-create that look with
> POV-Ray. They seem to depend on a certain style of drawing. People from the '50s
> looked a lot more wholesome than today!

That's a matter of perspective.  As a black American, I cannot look at 
"wholesome" '50s images without being reminded of the hidden ugly 
reality behind them.

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On 5/3/2017 3:00 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 05/03/2017 09:10 AM, clipka wrote:
>> Am 02.05.2017 um 22:37 schrieb Dave Blandston:
>>
>>> PS - I'm not sure if the phrase "Drink the Kool-Aid" is known
>>> worldwide, so for
>>> anyone unfamiliar with it the historical context is from the
>>> Jonestown, Guyana
>>> mass suicide incident in which hundreds of people knowingly drank
>>> grape Kool-Aid
>>> poisoned with cyanide. The poison Kool-Aid was in a vat labeled with
>>> a green
>>> "C." Since then the term has been used to describe the act of
>>> compromising one's
>>> integrity and adopting the unethical standards and methods of those
>>> in power in
>>> order to advance within some corrupt organization.
>>
>> I've heard the expression in the more general sense of adopting someone
>> else's bullshit ideology or values in blind faith.
>
> That has been my understanding as well.  When my faith abandoned me (in
> the middle of a church service, no less), I did not feel comfortable
> remaining in a community whose very rationale as a community was that
> set of beliefs that I no longer shared.  As communities that are *not*
> faith-based are practically non-existent in my locale, I was forced to
> find explicitly non-believing communities on-line, and when they talk
> about "drinking the Kool-Aid," it always refers to swallowing dogma.
>

I will just reply here as I am lazy. ;)

Cuz, I can well believe that you "had to get out of town". I was quite 
taken aback when I worked in Jamaica, how religious most people are. 
Even those that professed not to be. (And how deep grained but not 
spoken about, Obeah is. Not that, that bothered me in the slightest.)

> That's a matter of perspective.  As a black American, I cannot look at "wholesome"
'50s images without being reminded of the hidden ugly reality behind them.

That is not surprising. I remember from the the race riots of the 60's 
the contrasting images. Thank goodness that things have changed and will 
only get better under your present government. ;)

Kool-Aid. I remember Jonestown but "Drink the Kool-Aid" is not a phrase 
I've heard in the UK.

>> Yes, I remember that. It's still hard to believe that people can be so gullible,
>> or blind to the idiocy of a charismatic 'leader.'
>
> It's only hard to believe until the day you wake up and realize that
> you've already been there, done that (figuratively speaking).

Duh! It took me a while to cotton on. :(


-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> It's actually quite a bit more sinister than that.
> There was ample evidence suggesting and supporting that it was part of Project
> MK-Ultra and the whole thing was done intentionally from the beginning.
> When it all started to go sideways (from their warped perspective), they decided
> to scrub it, and most of the people didn't drink the punch (it wasn't brand-name
> Kool-Ade) they were either forcibly administered cyanide by mouth or injection,
> or shot.
>
> There's a lot of disturbing documentation of this, and there was even an LP made
> of Jim Jones' last half hour - what he said over the loudspeaker apparently had
> been taped.
>
> You really just can't make this stuff up, and unfortunately, history teaches us
> that it's all too real, believable, and prone to happen again, and again. And
> again.
>
> Because - you know - we all need people to "be in charge" and tell us what to
> do.   Especially if they steal from everyone else and give us "free stuff",
> "protection", "services", "safety", "care", etc. - whether we want it or not.

That's very interesting. I was not aware of the possible MKUltra connection. I
did listen to the recording you mentioned. The discussion regarding killing the
children was particularly disturbing.

One weird thing I noticed was that the Jonestown folks had a sign posted on
their compound with the quote, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned
to repeat it." There's a photo of this sign with several dead bodies lying
around it. Talk about irony! (Assuming the photo is legitimate, of course...)

Regards,
Dave Blandston

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Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> That's a matter of perspective.  As a black American, I cannot look at
> "wholesome" '50s images without being reminded of the hidden ugly
> reality behind them.

This may be a new topic, but if you accept the argument that Stefan Molyneux
makes in the You Tube video called "American Violence: The Future of a
Catastrophe," there's still an ugly reality regarding racism directed toward
black Americans. Stefan covers lots of topics in his videos and this one turned
out to be different than what I was expecting based on the title, but it's very
interesting.

Regards,
Dave Blandston

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On 2017-05-03 10:55 AM (-4), Stephen wrote:
> On 5/3/2017 3:00 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> That has been my understanding as well.  When my faith abandoned me (in
>> the middle of a church service, no less), I did not feel comfortable
>> remaining in a community whose very rationale as a community was that
>> set of beliefs that I no longer shared.  As communities that are *not*
>> faith-based are practically non-existent in my locale, I was forced to
>> find explicitly non-believing communities on-line, and when they talk
>> about "drinking the Kool-Aid," it always refers to swallowing dogma.
>
> I will just reply here as I am lazy. ;)
>
> Cuz, I can well believe that you "had to get out of town". I was quite
> taken aback when I worked in Jamaica, how religious most people are.
> Even those that professed not to be. (And how deep grained but not
> spoken about, Obeah is. Not that, that bothered me in the slightest.)

It's the same in the southeastern USA, and most rural parts of the USA 
as well.  In the global context, western Europe's non-religiosity is 
actually an anomaly.

In the Virgin Islands, Obeah is also not spoken of--except by Christian 
priests who pointedly remind us that they know damn well that we're 
doing it.

>> That's a matter of perspective.  As a black American, I cannot look at
>> "wholesome" '50s images without being reminded of the hidden ugly
>> reality behind them.
>
> That is not surprising. I remember from the the race riots of the 60's
> the contrasting images. Thank goodness that things have changed and will
> only get better under your present government. ;)

:-P

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On 5/4/2017 1:58 AM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2017-05-03 10:55 AM (-4), Stephen wrote:

> It's the same in the southeastern USA, and most rural parts of the USA
> as well.  In the global context, western Europe's non-religiosity is
> actually an anomaly.
>

It is. Just a blip in a long history of oppression. IMO
Long may it reign.

> In the Virgin Islands, Obeah is also not spoken of--except by Christian
> priests who pointedly remind us that they know damn well that we're
> doing it.
>

That sounds right. But the only person I've known from the (B)VI was 
white, rich and posh. So she doesn't count. </Boak*>
In fact the only place I've heard it talked about it was in in Nigeria. 
And that was Juju.
In Kingston, no one mentioned the name but after I showed my power 
(don't ask but if I were a woman I would have been a spaewife, it is a 
long story) lots of people spoke to me.

>>> That's a matter of perspective.  As a black American, I cannot look at
>>> "wholesome" '50s images without being reminded of the hidden ugly
>>> reality behind them.
>>
>> That is not surprising. I remember from the the race riots of the 60's
>> the contrasting images. Thank goodness that things have changed and will
>> only get better under your present government. ;)
>
> :-P
>

It makes me feel sick* and I don't live there.

* same meaning.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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