POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : 2020 year in review Server Time
28 Mar 2024 19:56:45 EDT (-0400)
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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 4 Jan 2021 09:20:07
Message: <web.5ff323bac28df99d98418910@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 02/01/2021 om 01:55 schreef Ton:
> > That's well done. I hope that when they write the review for 2021 next
> > year they can use a thumbs-up for the 1, and not a middle finger.
> >
> > Let's all have a good POV-year.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Ton
> >
>
> Yes, I join you in this. Happy POV Year to all.
>

2021 HAS to be better than 2020!

Just during the last three weeks, my older brother and his wife came down with
Covid-19, plus two local friends of mine and one of their wives. They are all
recovering, which is good news of course. I'm still feeling fine, I'm happy to
say.

Here in the United States, there have been TWO equally devastating viruses that
we have had to deal with: One is called 'Covid-19', the other is 'President
Donald Trump.' :-P  One infects the body, the other infects the mind. I can't
even imagine how the rest of the world views our current and crazy U.S.
situation.

Cousin Ricky wrote:
> With blurred reflection on the floor.

Nice!

How did you get those blurred reflections? My few attempts over the years to use
micro-normals have always resulted in Moire patterns that I could not eliminate.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 4 Jan 2021 14:41:18
Message: <5ff36f5e$1@news.povray.org>
On 2021-01-04 10:18 AM (-4), Kenneth wrote:
> 
> Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> With blurred reflection on the floor.
> 
> Nice!

Thanks!

> How did you get those blurred reflections? My few attempts over the years to use
> micro-normals have always resulted in Moire patterns that I could not eliminate.

I rendered 10 frames, with each frame having the micronormal translated 
and rotated randomly, then averaged the 10 frames.

In retrospect, the rotation was probably overkill.  My initial trials 
with translation only showed what looked like a blend of sharp 
reflection and blurred reflection, and since I have noticed regular 
patterns in the bumps normal, I figured rotating the normal would help 
the blurriness.  Rotating did not help, but reducing(!) bump_size did. 
Evidently, there is some sort of phase transition, somewhere between 0.1 
and 0.5, above which increasing bump_size led to poorer results.  The 
final scene uses bump_size 0.05.


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 4 Jan 2021 19:00:00
Message: <web.5ff3aaf1c28df9987570eab0@news.povray.org>
"Cousin Ricky" <rickysttATyahooDOTcom> wrote:

> With blurred reflection on the floor.

The blurred reflection version is very nice, well done sir!


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From: Robert McGregor
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 4 Jan 2021 19:00:01
Message: <web.5ff3ab77c28df9987570eab0@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:

> Here in the United States, there have been TWO equally devastating viruses that
> we have had to deal with: One is called 'Covid-19', the other is 'President
> Donald Trump.' :-P  One infects the body, the other infects the mind. I can't
> even imagine how the rest of the world views our current and crazy U.S.
> situation.

I agree 100% Kenneth, Trumpty Dumpty is obviously (and literally) insane. Stay
safe!


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 5 Jan 2021 10:17:57
Message: <5ff48325$1@news.povray.org>

> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> Op 02/01/2021 om 01:55 schreef Ton:
>>> That's well done. I hope that when they write the review for 2021 next
>>> year they can use a thumbs-up for the 1, and not a middle finger.
>>>
>>> Let's all have a good POV-year.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Ton
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I join you in this. Happy POV Year to all.
>>
> 
> 2021 HAS to be better than 2020!
> 
> Just during the last three weeks, my older brother and his wife came down with
> Covid-19, plus two local friends of mine and one of their wives. They are all
> recovering, which is good news of course. I'm still feeling fine, I'm happy to
> say.
> 
> Here in the United States, there have been TWO equally devastating viruses that
> we have had to deal with: One is called 'Covid-19', the other is 'President
> Donald Trump.' :-P  One infects the body, the other infects the mind. I can't
> even imagine how the rest of the world views our current and crazy U.S.
> situation.
> 
> Cousin Ricky wrote:
>> With blurred reflection on the floor.
> 
> Nice!
> 
> How did you get those blurred reflections? My few attempts over the years to use
> micro-normals have always resulted in Moire patterns that I could not eliminate.
> 
> 

I tend to use some averaged micro-normals. Around 5 to 10 seems to work 
well.
I prefer to use granite as my base pattern.
I also use rather large random translations after the scaling.
Also, when doing blurred reflection, I increase the AA recursion depth 
to 5 or 6 and reduce the threshold to around 0.01 or even 0.001.


D. Trump is probably the worst leader to ever lead any country in Human 
History. And, yes, he's bat shit crazy.


Alain


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 6 Jan 2021 09:15:07
Message: <web.5ff5c494c28df99d98418910@news.povray.org>
Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:

>
> I tend to use some averaged micro-normals. Around 5 to 10 seems to work
> well.
> I prefer to use granite as my base pattern.
> I also use rather large random translations after the scaling.

Granite-- I never thought of that. It is nicely 'random'. My own trials used
overlapped and rotated 'linear' patterns... like sine waves or scallop waves for
the normals, IIRC. Maybe that was the cause of my Moire patterns? I need to
experiment with your method.


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From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 6 Jan 2021 12:44:44
Message: <5ff5f70c$1@news.povray.org>

> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
> 
>>
>> I tend to use some averaged micro-normals. Around 5 to 10 seems to work
>> well.
>> I prefer to use granite as my base pattern.
>> I also use rather large random translations after the scaling.
> 
> Granite-- I never thought of that. It is nicely 'random'. My own trials used
> overlapped and rotated 'linear' patterns... like sine waves or scallop waves for
> the normals, IIRC. Maybe that was the cause of my Moire patterns? I need to
> experiment with your method.
> 
> 

You can also try bozo/bumps/spotted or agate as your base pattern.
You can mix different patterns.

For example, you can use a large scale bozo and overlay it with 
micro-normals using granite.

There are so many possibilities, you need to explore.

Tip when using averaged textures for complex objects or multiple objects 
with blurred reflection :

Make two copies of your objects with blurred reflection. The first have 
the full averaged texture and the no_reflection attribute. The second 
have only the non-averaged micro-normals and the no_image attribute.
That way, when that object self reflect, or several objects that have 
blurred reflection inter reflect, the number of rays to trace is kept to 
a reasonable level.
This is not useful in the present case as the only surface with blurred 
reflection is a ground plane.

Also, using averaged textures can be much faster that rendering multiple 
times and averaging the resulting images externally. The render time hit 
only affect the part of the image where there are averaged normals. 
Multiple renders need to render the whole image multiple times, then, 
you have the time needed to post process them.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 7 Jan 2021 22:45:55
Message: <5ff7d573$1@news.povray.org>
On 2021-01-06 1:44 PM (-4), Alain Martel wrote:

>> Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>>
>>> I tend to use some averaged micro-normals. Around 5 to 10 seems to work
>>> well.
>>> I prefer to use granite as my base pattern.
>>> I also use rather large random translations after the scaling.
>>
>> Granite-- I never thought of that. It is nicely 'random'. My own 
>> trials used
>> overlapped and rotated 'linear' patterns... like sine waves or scallop 
>> waves for
>> the normals, IIRC. Maybe that was the cause of my Moire patterns?

I suspect so.  Think of the regular patterns you see in 4-color 
halftones in comic books.

However, Rune Johansen has a brushed metal texture that just averages 2 
wood layers.  It is quite convincing, even with no blur effect.  It was 
written for MegaPOV 0.5, but it is easily converted to 3.7/3.8.
   http://runevision.com/3d/povgoodies/

> You can also try bozo/bumps/spotted or agate as your base pattern.

I tried crackle once, but it took longer than bumps and didn't look all 
that great.  Facets coords gives results similar to bumps, without 
taking longer.

I have never thought to try granite or agate.  Have you tried wrinkles?

> Tip when using averaged textures for complex objects or multiple objects 
> with blurred reflection :
> 
> Make two copies of your objects with blurred reflection. The first have 
> the full averaged texture and the no_reflection attribute. The second 
> have only the non-averaged micro-normals and the no_image attribute.
> That way, when that object self reflect, or several objects that have 
> blurred reflection inter reflect, the number of rays to trace is kept to 
> a reasonable level.

My RC3Metal module in the Object Collection uses this trick.  Thanks 
again for that idea.

> Also, using averaged textures can be much faster that rendering multiple 
> times and averaging the resulting images externally. The render time hit 
> only affect the part of the image where there are averaged normals. 
> Multiple renders need to render the whole image multiple times, then, 
> you have the time needed to post process them.

This was my first plan.  But I had written the original scene using 
POV-Ray 3.7, so to get the same effect as finish-level Fresnel, I had 
used a layered texture.  (Trust me, reflection-level Fresnel looked 
horrible.)  Then when I tried to change the bumpy layer to an averaged 
texture, I got the old "Cannot layer a patterned texture over another" 
error.  Rather than attempt to rearrange the texture, or unravel the 
texture to work with 3.8's finish-level Fresnel, I just chose the easy 
way out.  But yes, I agree that putting in the extra work would probably 
have shortened the render time.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 8 Jan 2021 12:30:01
Message: <web.5ff895dec28df99d98418910@news.povray.org>
Alain Martel <kua### [at] videotronca> wrote:
>
> Tips when using averaged textures for complex objects or multiple objects
> with blurred reflection...

Some very good tips; thanks Alain.

Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Rune Johansen has a brushed metal texture that just averages 2
> wood layers.  It is quite convincing, even with no blur effect.  It was
> written for MegaPOV 0.5, but it is easily converted to 3.7/3.8.
>    http://runevision.com/3d/povgoodies/

Ah yes, thanks. I had lost that link. (I think it was my initial 'introduction'
to blurred reflections and such.)


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From: Jörg "Yadgar" Bleimann
Subject: Re: 2020 year in review
Date: 11 Jan 2021 06:34:05
Message: <5ffc37ad$1@news.povray.org>
Hi(gh)!

On 05.01.21 16:17, Alain Martel wrote:

> D. Trump is probably the worst leader to ever lead any country in Human 
> History. And, yes, he's bat shit crazy.

I disagree - far from being a Trumpist, I would say that Hitler, Stalin, 
Pol Pot and Mao Tse-Tung were far worse! At least as long as Trump 
doesn't declare a full-scale nuclear war on Russia and China just hours 
before his tenure ends, just to ultimately demonstrate his psychopathy...

See you in Khyberspace!

Yadgar

Now playing: Little Neutrino (Klaatu)


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