=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>
> Which "things" do you mean?
>
I meant only the huge amount of internet activity I observed within a lot of
communities, not the contents. Fine to have you back here.

Best regards,
Michael

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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> ... I reconfigured my two computers in a way that I now only
> can use e-mail, Usenet (which of course includes news.povray.org) and
> telnet (for the occasional MUD session).

Just to pick a nit, news.povray.org is, explicitly and emphatically, NOT Usenet,
although it uses the same network protocol and discussion format.

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Hi(gh)!

Am 23.01.2013 02:11, schrieb Cousin Ricky:

> Just to pick a nit, news.povray.org is, explicitly and emphatically, NOT Usenet,
> although it uses the same network protocol and discussion format.

Hmmm... of course, the very culture of communication here differs very 
much from virtually all Usenet newsgroups I ever experienced since 
February 1995 - but technically, it looks like Usenet, feels like 
Usenet, but it doesn't smell like Usenet - no flame wars, no trolls, and 
if I remember correctly, only two spam postings in 12 years!

See you on my screen!

Yadgar

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Hi(gh)!

Am 22.01.2013 22:02, schrieb MichaelJF:

> I meant only the huge amount of internet activity I observed within a lot of
> communities, not the contents. Fine to have you back here.

Yes, and will stay put to p.b.i., as I am still able to use e-mail and 
newsgroups... I kicked all web browsers from my laptop's harddisk, and 
as I lost my Windows XP installation disk years ago and my main Linux 
computer is also not able to connect to the Internet anymore (unless I 
re-install Debian aptosid with the Ethernet cable plugged in, which 
would take more than two hours), I'm not tempted to plunge again into 
the WWW swamp! If I occasionally need to download some raytracing tools 
or information important to my Khyberspace, POVEarth and POVSolar 
projects, I still can use a friend's Internet connection.

The Linux computer (an AMD Opteron hexacore with 16 GB RAM and 2 TB 
harddisk) is now mostly devoted to POV-Ray (what else?).

See you on my screen!

Yadgar

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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
> Fear, fear, fear - that has been my life during the last
> 40 years! And only now I try to take some measures against this
> obsession...

That shows real courage! Just by realizing it, and wanting to change. That's a
positive step.

It's difficult (probably THE most difficult thing) to break away from an
ingrained mind-set. You're certainly not alone in that regard. I have an
acquaintance (not really a 'friend', as our philosophies just differ too much)
who spends countless hours on the internet, going from site to site to
essentially 'reinforce' her irrational and negative views of the world. Why she
CHOOSES to do so is a mystery to me, as this behavior is really unhealthy for
her. (Some of those internet sites are *so* strange, extreme and paranoid that
it boggles my mind.) We've had discussions about this; but the bottom line is
that she refuses to acknowledge that there might be a problem, and likewise
refuses to seek any help for it. So your own realization (even if late in
coming) is a great positive step!

Internet addiction is indeed a problem, and a growing one. I'm an older guy;
when I was growing up, we had *limited* interaction with the wider outside
world: three TV channels(!) plus newspapers, that was about it. Information came
from trusted, rational sources. And it was essentially a 'one-way
street'--opinions about the news and the world were generally shared only within
the family, or among close friends. With the modern internet, though, it's a
free-for-all: *Anyone* with an extreme viewpoint and/or an ax to grind can
'broadcast' to the world--and can easily connect with a group of like-minded
people, which only serves to *reinforce* the group's skewed opinions. It leads
to more extremism, in all forms. (That's one reason why I don't visit Facebook
very often: too many 'fringe' opinions about things.)

So getting away from the internet (if only temporarily) is highly recommended!
;-)

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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:

>
> In fact, my most severe addiction (or better, compulsion as it gives me
> not even short-time positive feelings of satisfaction, only mental pain)
> is googling several times a day for the catchwords "sin" or "hell", to
> land up on Christian fundamentalist websites telling me that I, as a
> homosexual unbeliever, am heading straight towards a place and state
> infinitely worse than Auschwitz!

I think the best thing to do would be to see the humor(!) in those
fundamentalist sites. "Finding humor in things" has always been my motto--it
keeps me sane in a crazy world.

I grew up in Virginia in the US--which is one of the States near the 'deep
South', where Christian fundamentalism has its biggest base. My early years were
religiously oriented (by my family.) I'm a non-believer now; but it took a
*great* deal of effort and time, on my part, to 'break away' from what I
considered to be a fear-based, closed view of the world. It wasn't easy here
(and still isn't); the great majority of people (even friends of mine) are
Christian-oriented. And the common thread *I* see is fear. Christianity itself
is probably not to blame; but it seems to me that fundamentalism and fear go
hand-in-hand. As others have commented, it would be best for you to stay away
from the fundamentalist websites, as a first step. (I wish I could convince the
people I know to do the same.)

BTW, I wouldn't be too upset that you haven't had many visits to your own
website (if that's the case.) You're probably in very good company! ;-) The web
has so *many* sites to choose from--even POV-Ray oriented sites--that I rarely
get a chance to re-visit them as much as I would like. That doesn't mean I/we
are not interested, it's probably just the result of limited time, or having
other pursuits. I know it can be frustrating to 'create' something, and then
have little interest in it from others. But my own philosophy about creativity
(for what it's worth) is this: The FUN of creativity itself is its own reward.
If others like it, great! If not, that's OK too. That doesn't change the
'reason' for the creativity. It should basically be a self-fulfilling and fun
pursuit, first and foremost--good for the creative juices and self-esteem.
Nothing wrong what that!

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On 1/22/2013 9:58 AM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 09:01:52 -0500, Cousin Ricky wrote:
>
>> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>>> In fact, my most severe addiction (or better, compulsion as it gives me
>>> not even short-time positive feelings of satisfaction, only mental
>>> pain)
>>> is googling several times a day for the catchwords "sin" or "hell", to
>>> land up on Christian fundamentalist websites telling me that I, as a
>>> homosexual unbeliever, am heading straight towards a place and state
>>> infinitely worse than Auschwitz! Websites which tell me that even the
>>> faintest hunch of independent, individualist thinking is nothing less
>>> than spitting into the face of God Almighty, unforgivable unless I
>>> surrender to Fundamentalist doctrine and become a robotic slave of what
>>> they call "Jesus Christ". There must be tens of thousands of such
>>> websites, also in German language... and I'm simply addicted to
>>> religiously induced fear!
>>
>> You must stop Googling "sin" and "hell," and stay away from
>> fundamentalist Web sites.  Why torture yourself?  See if there are any
>> atheist, humanist, or freethought groups in your community; they can
>> help you deal with social surroundings that condemn you for who you are.
>
> It's easy to say "well, stop doing that, then" - but as he says, it's a
> compulsion, and something that it sounds like he's seeking help for.
>
Yes, I understand that. But that sort of compulsion has to be "rooted" 
on some level in a fear that these things might be true. And, that is 
the single hardest thing, even for people that completely give up on 
religion, to break. First step though has to be recognizing that its all 
BS from square one. Then, its still hard, and its not likely to help 
that a large percentage of mental health people may be just as roped in 
to the nonsense, so can't, themselves, completely break away from some 
level of belief in it.

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> Hi(gh)!
>
> Am 22.01.2013 15:01, schrieb Cousin Ricky:
>
>> Do you have a fundamentalist Christian background?
>
> No, not at all - it is a purely self-taught neurosis! It is not a
> genuine Christian faith, just a result of my compulsive searching for
> things to fear! And, the Christian/Islamic concept of hell is the most
> fearsome idea man at all is able to conceive, so I went for it... since
> early childhood, I am addicted to fear! In earlier years, I had
> different fear themes, such as contracting some deadly disease (most
> favourite: AIDS and rabies), ending up in an extermination camp in some
> future Orwellian turbo-fascist regime, becoming psychotic, becoming
> demented due to premature Alzheimer's or BSE, or even the fear of
> reality being in fact a Matrix-like setting, with myself being nothing
> but a brain floating in some liquid nutrient solution in a mad
> scientist's laboratory - or even being the only conscious being in the
> whole universe! But hell is definitely unbeatable when it comes to
> inducing fear! Fear, fear, fear - that has been my life during the last
> 40 years! And only now I try to take some measures against this
> obsession... by retreating (mostly) from the Internet, limiting my
> activities to e-mail, usenet and telnet.
>
> See you on my screen!
>
> Yadgar
Yikes.. Yeah, ok, that is definitely an.. interesting.. compulsion. Kind 
of an extreme version of some people's adventure seeking, which is, at 
least partly, neurological. Kind of makes me wonder if that is the case 
here too, then.

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On 1/23/2013 1:54 AM, Kenneth wrote:
> =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rg_=27Yadgar=27_Bleimann?= <yaz### [at] gmxde> wrote:
>> Fear, fear, fear - that has been my life during the last
>> 40 years! And only now I try to take some measures against this
>> obsession...
>
> That shows real courage! Just by realizing it, and wanting to change. That's a
> positive step.
>
> It's difficult (probably THE most difficult thing) to break away from an
> ingrained mind-set. You're certainly not alone in that regard. I have an
> acquaintance (not really a 'friend', as our philosophies just differ too much)
> who spends countless hours on the internet, going from site to site to
> essentially 'reinforce' her irrational and negative views of the world. Why she
> CHOOSES to do so is a mystery to me, as this behavior is really unhealthy for
> her. (Some of those internet sites are *so* strange, extreme and paranoid that
> it boggles my mind.) We've had discussions about this; but the bottom line is
> that she refuses to acknowledge that there might be a problem, and likewise
> refuses to seek any help for it. So your own realization (even if late in
> coming) is a great positive step!
>
> Internet addiction is indeed a problem, and a growing one. I'm an older guy;
> when I was growing up, we had *limited* interaction with the wider outside
> world: three TV channels(!) plus newspapers, that was about it. Information came
> from trusted, rational sources. And it was essentially a 'one-way
> street'--opinions about the news and the world were generally shared only within
> the family, or among close friends. With the modern internet, though, it's a
> free-for-all: *Anyone* with an extreme viewpoint and/or an ax to grind can
> 'broadcast' to the world--and can easily connect with a group of like-minded
> people, which only serves to *reinforce* the group's skewed opinions. It leads
> to more extremism, in all forms. (That's one reason why I don't visit Facebook
> very often: too many 'fringe' opinions about things.)
>
> So getting away from the internet (if only temporarily) is highly recommended!
> ;-)
>
>
Yeah, it was so much better when the only way "fringe" could be 
broadcast was in the endless list of articles in fashion magazines, 
purporting miracle aging cures, or the latest "threat" to your diet. lol

Seriously though. Yeah, the internet doesn't exactly "filter" for decent 
information. Sadly, neither do some things that should, like medicine. 
Someone suggested a while back that we need to reclassify those things 
not as medicine/alternative, but as: Proven, unproven, and comfort 
measures. Because damn near everything thing in the so called 
"alternative" category, if not total bullshit, is either placebo (i.e., 
comfort measures), or unproven. Yet, the fact that they are not divided 
in such a clear way, allows insurance companies to offer up things like 
chiropractic (which is half comfort measures, and half dangerous 
bullshit), or acupuncture (which all evidence places in the "comfort 
measure" category), as valid options. And, those are just the semi-safe 
things, which *usually* don't get offered up to critically ill people, 
or those with dangerous, but treatable, conditions, if the doctor 
bothers to properly diagnose them, instead of handing them some herbal 
BS, and the like (which has happened a few times after some clown that 
should know better "diagnosed" a real condition as, "lack of energy", 
instead of figuring out why they had a lack of energy in the first place).

And, of course, as you say, this is just the "mild" stuff out there. 
Sadly, a lot of the non-mild stuff is also parroted on radio, or even 
Fox News, so.. turning off the internet, at least in the US, won't get 
you any place either.

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Am 23.01.2013 18:07, schrieb Patrick Elliott:

> And, of course, as you say, this is just the "mild" stuff out there.
> Sadly, a lot of the non-mild stuff is also parroted on radio, or even
> Fox News, so.. turning off the internet, at least in the US, won't get
> you any place either.

Germany is a comparatively sane place, as far as that goes.

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