Some more progress again. Three different views.

Inside: the tabletops still need an adequate texture. And waiting for 
customers :-)

Outside: the "pubsign" is an object found a long time ago on the web, 
and textured using Sam's NestProx macro. Thanks Sam!

Viewed real close, the arched passage strongly needs a displacement map. 
The image map is too artificial in this case.

Thomas

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On 11-12-2011 10:42, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Viewed real close, the arched passage strongly needs a displacement map.
> The image map is too artificial in this case.

A displacement map has been applied here, using the displacement feature 
in Poseray.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot wrote:

> Viewed real close, the arched passage strongly needs a displacement map. 
> The image map is too artificial in this case.

although it looks to me like the main problem here is lack of
image map resolution for the closeup view.

Also, have you tried using a bump_map? Or more caring inhabitants
that actually repair their walls now and then? ;)

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Am 11.12.2011 10:42, schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Some more progress again. Three different views.
>
Beautiful scenes and delicious choice of colors. I really love it and 
especially your attempt to create a whole little world and not just one 
shot.

Thats it for the compliments and now the usual nitpicking:

Others have already mentioned it and I too find the moire pattern that 
is produced by the floor tiles within the 'Jackal' most distracting.
Slightly blurring the image map or in case this are Jaime's tiles 
modifying the color map to have a small transition between different 
colors might help. In my experience even insane AA or FB setting do 
sometimes not produce the desired smoothness so if anything else fails 
rendering the image with higher resolution and moderate AA/FB and 
finally down-sampling it should always do it without much of a speed 
penalty.
Also polished stones or ceramic tiles are actually quite reflective when 
viewed at shallow angles and therefor need fresnel falloff for the 
reflection with a quite high IOR (1.5 and above). It is hard to predict 
in this case but as the moire gets also stronger with shallow angels it 
might also help with this unwanted patterns.

The next thing that bothers me is the texture of the stone arch in the 
background. And I'm *not* talking about the 3rd picture where we are 
standing below that arch and this issue is even more dominant.
The texture seems to be an image map that already has highlights and 
shadows. And these do not match the real lighting condition. Actually 
very close but it does not *really* fit.
To me this cries out loud CGI and I always find it distracting when 
someone starts yelling at me.
Editing the used image with some clever filtering usually does the trick.

-Ive

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On 11-12-2011 23:04, Ive wrote:
> Beautiful scenes and delicious choice of colors. I really love it and
> especially your attempt to create a whole little world and not just one
> shot.

Thanks Ive.

>
> Thats it for the compliments and now the usual nitpicking:

OK, I was expecting that, and glad to get a few punches ;-)
[jumps into karate mode]

>
> Others have already mentioned it and I too find the moire pattern that
> is produced by the floor tiles within the 'Jackal' most distracting.
> Slightly blurring the image map or in case this are Jaime's tiles
> modifying the color map to have a small transition between different
> colors might help. In my experience even insane AA or FB setting do
> sometimes not produce the desired smoothness so if anything else fails
> rendering the image with higher resolution and moderate AA/FB and
> finally down-sampling it should always do it without much of a speed
> penalty.

Yes, this has been a concern to me too, to the point where I am thinking 
about a different decoration. I have first to investigate your 
suggestions though.

> Also polished stones or ceramic tiles are actually quite reflective when
> viewed at shallow angles and therefor need fresnel falloff for the
> reflection with a quite high IOR (1.5 and above). It is hard to predict
> in this case but as the moire gets also stronger with shallow angels it
> might also help with this unwanted patterns.

These tiles already have fresnel and ior 1.5, so...

>
> The next thing that bothers me is the texture of the stone arch in the
> background. And I'm *not* talking about the 3rd picture where we are
> standing below that arch and this issue is even more dominant.
> The texture seems to be an image map that already has highlights and
> shadows. And these do not match the real lighting condition. Actually
> very close but it does not *really* fit.
> To me this cries out loud CGI and I always find it distracting when
> someone starts yelling at me.
> Editing the used image with some clever filtering usually does the trick.

Yeah... I know, I know. Has been mostly laziness up till now, but that 
image map sucks because of those shadows. I have not been really happy 
with that from the start but kept it for later worries. A lame excuse, I 
know, but there you have it. I definitely need to overhaul the whole 
concept there. Thanks for the kick in the arse ;-)

Thomas

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On 11-12-2011 22:09, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> although it looks to me like the main problem here is lack of
> image map resolution for the closeup view.
>
> Also, have you tried using a bump_map? Or more caring inhabitants
> that actually repair their walls now and then? ;)

No use to ask the inhabitants. They just don't care I am told.

The problem needs a bit of serious work and Ive's comments complete 
yours. No possibility any more to evade my responsibilities... ;-)

Thomas

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I believe I have improved a number of things.



2) I processed the stone image map in the Gimp, and added a second layer 
in POV.

ToDo: a better street surface.

Thomas

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Am 12.12.2011 14:11, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

> I believe I have improved a number of things.
>


Especially given that this render uses poor AA.

And for the reflection, hmm, I might be mistaken, but I would expect it 
to look different, especially where I think the sky or one of the 
opposite white walls from the houses are reflected. My starting point 
for ceramic floor tiles would be something like reflection {0 0.8 
fresnel on metallic 0.1} (ideally it would be {0 1 fresnel on ... the 
0.8 is only to assume a layer of dust/dirt).

> 2) I processed the stone image map in the Gimp, and added a second layer
> in POV.

The stone texture itself does now fit nicely, but I liked it better 
without the plaster as this broken plaster element is already widely 
used within the scene.

> ToDo: a better street surface.

;)

-Ive

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On 12-12-2011 22:43, Ive wrote:
> Am 12.12.2011 14:11, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

>
> Especially given that this render uses poor AA.

Why? Not that poor, though.

>
> And for the reflection, hmm, I might be mistaken, but I would expect it
> to look different, especially where I think the sky or one of the
> opposite white walls from the houses are reflected. My starting point
> for ceramic floor tiles would be something like reflection {0 0.8
> fresnel on metallic 0.1} (ideally it would be {0 1 fresnel on ... the
> 0.8 is only to assume a layer of dust/dirt).

0.8?! I use 0.05 as otherwise the tiles are much too reflective for my 
taste. 0.8 gives the tiles a mirror aspect which I certainly do not 
want. See image with 0.8 instead of 0.05.
I might increase that value a bit though.... ;-)

> The stone texture itself does now fit nicely, but I liked it better
> without the plaster as this broken plaster element is already widely
> used within the scene.

I agree. See image.

Thomas

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Am 13.12.2011 09:12, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

>> Especially given that this render uses poor AA.
>
> Why? Not that poor, though.
>

The staircases? See attachment. Even more prominent at the sunlight 
shadows from the facade beams.


>>
>> And for the reflection, hmm, I might be mistaken, but I would expect it
>> to look different, especially where I think the sky or one of the
>> opposite white walls from the houses are reflected. My starting point
>> for ceramic floor tiles would be something like reflection {0 0.8
>> fresnel on metallic 0.1} (ideally it would be {0 1 fresnel on ... the
>> 0.8 is only to assume a layer of dust/dirt).
>
> 0.8?! I use 0.05 as otherwise the tiles are much too reflective for my
> taste. 0.8 gives the tiles a mirror aspect which I certainly do not
> want. See image with 0.8 instead of 0.05.
> I might increase that value a bit though.... ;-)
>

Well, I said "starting point" and not that I would leave it this way ;)

I just checked it out in our kitchen and the tiles *are* becoming a 
perfect mirror (slightly blurred though) and their own colors and 
ornamentation gets completely lost.

So the high reflection does not look *that* wrong to me. Major problem 
is that it makes it obvious that the floor is a perfect plane missing 
the expected irregularity in tile alignment and the missing joints/gaps.

Anyway it is just about finding the right balance between real-world 
physics and faking it as usual within ray-tracing. Even with so called 
unbiased render engines this keeps true (or maybe even more, because 
flaws become also more obvious) as I'm currently playing around with the 
trial version of the Maxwell renderer.

-Ive

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