POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.beta-test : POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released Server Time: 27 May 2017 07:58:14 GMT
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From: clipka
Subject: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 19 Feb 2017 13:00:52
Message: <58a99704$1@news.povray.org>
Since the beans have been spilled already, it's no use denying it
anymore -- v3.7.1-beta.3 is available on GitHub:

https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.7.1-beta.3

Besides fixing a few bugs, this version should also improve performance
on 64-bit Windows machines over the previous beta -- especially if your
scene makes plenty use of noise and your CPU supports AVX2 and FMA3
(thanks to hand-optimized code courtesy of Intel); other scenes and CPUs
should also profit though.

Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.

Note that the choice between XP-compatibility and performance is a
matter of the build tool used (Visual Studio 2010 will generate
XP-compatible binaries, while Visual Studio 2015 will generate faster
ones), so 64-bit XP-compatible binaries /can/ still be built from the
source code, as can faster 32-bit binaries.


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 19 Feb 2017 15:38:44
Message: <58a9bc04$1@news.povray.org>
On 2017-02-19 09:00 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.

Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new 
POV-Ray versions should have to support it.

And if anyone out there is still using XP, you're a sitting duck for any 
security holes that have opened up since 2014.


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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 19 Feb 2017 16:13:33
Message: <58a9c42d$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/19/2017 3:42 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 2017-02-19 09:00 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
>> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
>> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
>> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
>> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
>> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.
>
> Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new
> POV-Ray versions should have to support it.
>

That is a fair point. Does PovRay run on a 16 bit OS like Win 3.1?

> And if anyone out there is still using XP, you're a sitting duck for any
> security holes that have opened up since 2014.
>

Only if it is connected to the internet. I can imagine someone keeping 
an old machine as part of a home render farm. Rather than just scrapping it.

-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 19 Feb 2017 18:35:26
Message: <58a9e56e$1@news.povray.org>
Am 19.02.2017 um 16:42 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> On 2017-02-19 09:00 AM (-4), clipka wrote:
>> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
>> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
>> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
>> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
>> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
>> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.
> 
> Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new
> POV-Ray versions should have to support it.
> 
> And if anyone out there is still using XP, you're a sitting duck for any
> security holes that have opened up since 2014.

Let's put it this way: As long as anyone posting on these newsgroups on
a regular basis is still using XP, I prefer to keep POV-Ray alive on
that operating system.

I'd think differently about any other application; but POV-Ray is one of
the few pieces of software that make sense to be installed on an old
shoe box in a corner, with a presumably equally old operating system.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 19 Feb 2017 19:16:32
Message: <58a9ef10$1@news.povray.org>
Am 19.02.2017 um 17:13 schrieb Stephen:
> On 2/19/2017 3:42 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
...
>> Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new
>> POV-Ray versions should have to support it.
> 
> That is a fair point. Does PovRay run on a 16 bit OS like Win 3.1?

Apples and oranges.

Continuing support for 16-bit Windows 3.1 would have meant maintaining a
separate obsolete strain of POV-Ray (namely POV-Ray for DOS).

Continuing support for Windows XP is just a matter of retaining
compatibility with it in an actively maintained strain of POV-Ray
(namely POV-Ray for Win32).

If you want to draw any comparison, it might be more fitting to ask
about support for Windows 95 (or even Windows 3.1 with Win32s).


BTW, POV-Ray seems to have seen the following official major strains:

- POV-Ray for Amiga
- POV-Ray for DOS (and Windows 3.1 and OS/2)
- POV-Ray for Mac ("classic" Mac OS)
- POV-Ray for Unix (including Mac OS X)
- POV-Ray for Win32 (including its 64-bit variant)

Of these, the first three have been discontinued.


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 05:15:00
Message: <web.58aa7acf48a761e6883fb31c0@news.povray.org>
Cousin Ricky <ric### [at] yahoocom> wrote:

>
> Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new
> POV-Ray versions should have to support it.
>

I would still be using my 32-bit WinXP machine, if the motherboard hadn't died
six months ago (which I rather reluctantly had to replace with a used Win7
64-bit machine-- not Win10, which I didn't want.)

My reason for wanting to stick with XP? Stability. And familiarity. It's not
that I'm against upgrading to newer OS versions; it's just that the learning
curve 'gets in the way', so to speak. I would rather be *productive* on a
computer, instead of having to spend lots of time getting used to a new OS and
its quirks. Even Win7 is somewhat of a new learning curve, for me. I do miss my
XP machine.

That said, I do appreciate the ability to finally use a 64-bit version of
POV-Ray, as well as other apps that require such an OS (AND to finally have a
computer with more than one core!)

My own opinion is that there is still plenty of life left in older machines and
OS's. (I actually still have a Win98 machine(!)-- offline-- because, right now,
it's my only machine with Photoshop installed; an older version, but still quite
useful.)


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From: Cousin Ricky
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 05:41:49
Message: <58aa819d$1@news.povray.org>
On 2017-02-20 01:13 AM (-4), Kenneth wrote:
> My reason for wanting to stick with XP? Stability. And familiarity. It's not
> that I'm against upgrading to newer OS versions; it's just that the learning
> curve 'gets in the way', so to speak. I would rather be *productive* on a
> computer, instead of having to spend lots of time getting used to a new OS and
> its quirks. Even Win7 is somewhat of a new learning curve, for me. I do miss my
> XP machine.

I feel your pain.  The Win7 learning curve was so steep, I ended up 
switching to GNU/Linux!

I use Win10 away from home, and find it far less unpleasant than Win7, 
though I still would have preferred the straightforwardness of WinXP. 
Unfortunately(?), I boot up Win7 at home so seldom that it hasn't had a 
chance to download Win10.


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From: StephenS
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 16:28:17
Message: <58ab1921$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/02/2017 8:00 AM, clipka wrote:
...
> we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
> XP-compatible for now,
...

Warning popup:

This build of POV-Ray requires that your processor provides SSE2 
support. Please use the standard non-SSE2 version of POV-Ray on this 
computer.

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 2.19 GHz, 2.00 GB of RAM

I used to be able to run both on this computer.

pvengine.exe runs, linked to older downlaoded editor?, not opening 
files. I still have the alternate editor file, will run with that.

....
I only have a newer alternate cmedit32-sse2.dll

Stephen S


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From: StephenS
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 16:39:38
Message: <58ab1bca$1@news.povray.org>
On 19/02/2017 1:35 PM, clipka wrote:
...
> Let's put it this way: As long as anyone posting on these newsgroups on
> a regular basis is still using XP, I prefer to keep POV-Ray alive on
> that operating system.
>
...
I post about Win XP32, I render on Win10 64bit.

Although there maybe others out there ;-)

Stephen S


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From: StephenS
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 16:44:48
Message: <58ab1d00$1@news.povray.org>
On 20/02/2017 11:28 AM, StephenS wrote:

> ....
> I only have a newer alternate cmedit32-sse2.dll
>
I'm not sure what I have, needs more testing.

Stephen S


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