Tail Kinker <the### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> I also want some
> ready-made macros for walking, running, jumping, etc., with
> interpolation between movement styles.  (That's getting into hurty math,
> though.)

The BipedRobot.pov file in bones.zip (yes it is forward kinematics) already has
walking and running and interpolation and all the hurty math already done for
you.

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On 12-04-21 12:07 AM, robotguy wrote:
> Tail Kinker<the### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
>> I also want some
>> ready-made macros for walking, running, jumping, etc., with
>> interpolation between movement styles.  (That's getting into hurty math,
>> though.)
>
> The BipedRobot.pov file in bones.zip (yes it is forward kinematics) already has
> walking and running and interpolation and all the hurty math already done for
> you.
>
>
>
>
But if it's forward, it won't work at all with ik_skeleton.

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Tail Kinker <the### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> On 12-04-21 12:07 AM, robotguy wrote:
> > Tail Kinker<the### [at] gmailcom>  wrote:
> >> I also want some
> >> ready-made macros for walking, running, jumping, etc., with
> >> interpolation between movement styles.  (That's getting into hurty math,
> >> though.)
> >
> > The BipedRobot.pov file in bones.zip (yes it is forward kinematics) already has
> > walking and running and interpolation and all the hurty math already done for
> > you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> But if it's forward, it won't work at all with ik_skeleton.

I think our ideas can work together.  The key part of your IK software is the
calculation of the ShoulderAngle, ElbowAngle, HipAngle and KneeAngle, using the
Cosine Rule.  You're basically taking a minimum number of data points and using
them to calculate all the intermediate angles.  This is very useful for
generating a single character Pose.

I did something similar in my Canfield joint simulation; the IK for the Canfield
joint is attached to the Zero bone.  It is possible to attach other inverse
kinematics pose-generation shortcuts to the Zero bone of other skeletons.  I can
see how to use your implementation of the Cosine rule to simplify some character
pose generation.

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Hi Guys.

I've been reading your discussions and you got me thinking. I have looked at
reconstructing Blobman to use in my Alive! program. But, it occurred to me
yesterday that it might be easier to just create a translation link file. I
already have a stick figure I animate in Alive! I wrote the following this
morning:

          ----------------

//*****
// Temporarily move arms out of the way for testing.
//*****
#local BM_RA_S2E=<90,90,-8>; // Right Shoulder
#local BM_RA_E2W=<90,90,-3>; // Right Elbow
#local BM_LA_S2E=<90,-90,8>; // Left Shoulder
#local BM_LA_E2W=<90,-90,3>; // Left Elbow


//*****
// Link the Joints angles from Alive! to Blobman
//*****

// Right Hip
#ifdef (Rhip_R)
  #local BM_RL_H2K=<8,0,-5>;             // Set to Blobman default
                                         // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_RL_H2K=BM_RL_H2K + <-Rhip_R.x,Rhip_R.y,Rhip_R.z>;
  #local BM_RL_H2K=BM_RL_H2K - <0,0,45>; // Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_RL_H2K=<8,0,-5>;             // Started at the hip. Need to complete
the linkage to the base.
#end


// Right Knee
#ifdef (RKnee_R)
  #local BM_RL_K2A=<-8,0,3>;              // Set to Blobman default
  #local BM_RL_K2A=BM_RL_K2A + BM_RL_H2K; // Add angles of preceeding joints
                                          // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_RL_K2A=BM_RL_K2A + <-RKnee_R.x,RKnee_R.y,RKnee_R.z>;
  #local BM_RL_K2A=BM_RL_K2A - <0,0,0>;   // Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_RL_K2A=<-8,0,3> + BM_RL_H2K;  // Set to Blobman default plus
preceeding joint angles
#end


// Right Ankle
#ifdef (RAnkle_R)
  #local BM_RF_Rot=<8,0,-3>;
                                          // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_RF_Rot=BM_RF_Rot + <-(RAnkle_R.x+180),RAnkle_R.y,RAnkle_R.z>;
  #local BM_RF_Rot=BM_RF_Rot - <-90,0,0>; // Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_RF_Rot=<8,0,-3>;
#end


// Left Hip
#ifdef (LHip_R)
  #local BM_LL_H2K=<8,0,5>;              // Set to Blobman default
                                         // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_LL_H2K=BM_LL_H2K + <-LHip_R.x,LHip_R.y,LHip_R.z>;
  #local BM_LL_H2K=BM_LL_H2K - <0,0,-45>;// Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_LL_H2K=<8,0,5>;              // Started at the hip. Need to complete
the linkage to the base.
#end


// Left Knee
#ifdef (LKnee_R)
  #local BM_LL_K2A=<-8,0,-3>;             // Set to Blobman default
  #local BM_LL_K2A=BM_LL_K2A + BM_LL_H2K; // Add angles of preceeding joints
                                          // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_LL_K2A=BM_LL_K2A + <-LKnee_R.x,LKnee_R.y,LKnee_R.z>;
  #local BM_LL_K2A=BM_LL_K2A - <0,0,0>;   // Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_LL_K2A=<-8,0,-3> + BM_LL_H2K; // Set to Blobman default plus
preceeding joint angles
#end


// Left Ankle
#ifdef (LAnkle_R)
  #local BM_LF_Rot=<8,0,3>;
                                          // Add Alive! action angle
  #local BM_LF_Rot=BM_LF_Rot + <-(LAnkle_R.x+180),LAnkle_R.y,LAnkle_R.z>;
  #local BM_LF_Rot=BM_LF_Rot - <-90,0,0>; // Subtract Alive! default angle
#else
  #local BM_RF_Rot=<8,0,3>;
#end

//*****
// Include the Blobman
//*****
#include "bmpeople.inc"
Blob_Man(Male,2)
object {BlobMan transform BMO_Abdomen_U scale 35 rotate Unknown_ROT1 rotate
Unknown_ROT2 rotate Unknown_ROT3 translate <0,30,0>}

          --------------------

As you have seen, Blobman orients each limb separately rather then chaining off
of the proceeding limb. This include file (while quick and dirty and only
dealing with the legs at present) accounts for that and applies my LKnee_R
vector to Blobman's left knee adjusting for the preceeding adjustment to the
hip. I included this file in my character and used the walk cycle from lesson 3
of my documentation and got this:

http://www.imagicproductions.com/Example/Animation21.gif

It is not perfect. But, I was pleased with 2 hours of playing around. I left the
stick figure legs in to show how it translated.

Maybe everyone else has already thought of this. But, I'm happy to have a way to
incorporate Blobman and POVpeople without as much work as I thought. If you
haven't thought of it, maybe it would help with your packages.

I should also be able to use the existing Costume Definition Files.  :)

TRP

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"trp" <trp### [at] imagicproductionscom> wrote:
> Hi Guys.
>
> I've been reading your discussions and you got me thinking. I have looked at
> reconstructing Blobman to use in my Alive! program. But, it occurred to me
> yesterday that it might be easier to just create a translation link file. I
> already have a stick figure I animate in Alive! I wrote the following this
> morning:
>
>


//snikt code

>
> As you have seen, Blobman orients each limb separately rather then chaining off
> of the proceeding limb. This include file (while quick and dirty and only
> dealing with the legs at present) accounts for that and applies my LKnee_R
> vector to Blobman's left knee adjusting for the preceeding adjustment to the
> hip. I included this file in my character and used the walk cycle from lesson 3
> of my documentation and got this:
>
> http://www.imagicproductions.com/Example/Animation21.gif
>
> It is not perfect. But, I was pleased with 2 hours of playing around. I left the
> stick figure legs in to show how it translated.
>
> Maybe everyone else has already thought of this. But, I'm happy to have a way to
> incorporate Blobman and POVpeople without as much work as I thought. If you
> haven't thought of it, maybe it would help with your packages.
>
> I should also be able to use the existing Costume Definition Files.  :)
>
> TRP


I've been thinking about incorporating translations files between blobman and
bones.inc; it would be really nice to use work people have already done on
costumes etc.  Using the IK algorithms developed here in IK skeleton on
bones.inc should help with pose generation.  Ideally, we want to use existing
characters as much as possible and just extend the functionality.  This could go
a long way to using POVray for much more complex character animations.

I've also been thinking about having multiple skeletons associated with the same
character, with the skeleton used being chosen based on the distance from the
character to the camera as a computational shortcut.  Still haven't figured out
how that would work in bones.inc, but the idea is bubbling around in my head
anyhow.

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http://povhouse.freewebsites.com/povperson/index.htm

link for zip file is broken.

Does anyone have a URL, or know where I can get Chris Bartlett's POV-Person?

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"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> http://povhouse.freewebsites.com/povperson/index.htm
>
> link for zip file is broken.
>
> Does anyone have a URL, or know where I can get Chris Bartlett's POV-Person?

Try this URL
http://tailkinker.contrabandent.com/software.htm

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"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> http://povhouse.freewebsites.com/povperson/index.htm
>
> link for zip file is broken.
>
> Does anyone have a URL, or know where I can get Chris Bartlett's POV-Person?

I don't know if Chris is still around. But, I have a copy of the zip I
downloaded back in 2009. Since the bottom of his web page says we are authorized
to re-use it, I assume he wouldn't mind if I e-mail it to you.

If others want it, would it make since to post a copy as an attachment in one of
the newsgroups? Which one makes sense? "scene-files" under "POV-Ray Binary
Files" or "misc" or somewhere else?

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Thanks trp, that's very kind.

I'm sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to post it here as an attachment.  It would
be a shame for that work to get lost.  Perhaps folk might see it, start using
it, and renew interest in the project.

Post a reply to this message

"Bald Eagle" <cre### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Thanks trp, that's very kind.
>
> I'm sure it wouldn't be a bad idea to post it here as an attachment.  It would
> be a shame for that work to get lost.  Perhaps folk might see it, start using
> it, and renew interest in the project.

For anyone following this thread, I posted the POV-person zips at:

http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.utilities/message/%3Cweb.52006f74a1fd29c14e8fd4d70@news.povray.org%3E//povray.bi
naries.utilities/


Peter Houston's Blobman 4.2 zip is at:

http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.utilities/thread/%3C3d35eec1@news.povray.org%3E/


There is another zip with a few more goodies at:

http://news.povray.org/povray.binaries.utilities/thread/%3C4b9ea749%40news.povray.org%3E/


Have fun.

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