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When is the next topic going to be up?
1/6th of our time is already gone!
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Tyler Eaves wrote:
> When is the next topic going to be up?
>
> 1/6th of our time is already gone!
I think that it is really 'Great inventions', you can see it with the
updated due date on the welcome message of the ftp site.
After 'Great engineering achievements' and 'Old technology' it's like
the third time we have this kind of theme. Another thing is that I'm not
sure we'll have another round: very few entrants last round, nothing
happening on the web site after 10 days, that smells very bad.
JC
--
http://exether.free.fr/irtc (more IRTC stats !)
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"JC (Exether)" <exe### [at] nospam fr> wrote in message
news:404f7383$1@news.povray.org...
> Tyler Eaves wrote:
> > When is the next topic going to be up?
> >
> > 1/6th of our time is already gone!
>
> I think that it is really 'Great inventions', you can see it with the
> updated due date on the welcome message of the ftp site.
> After 'Great engineering achievements' and 'Old technology' it's like
> the third time we have this kind of theme. Another thing is that I'm not
> sure we'll have another round: very few entrants last round, nothing
> happening on the web site after 10 days, that smells very bad.
I think the bar has risen sufficiently that people are intimidated to enter.
Or a better way of putting it would be, "I don't want to do a half-a**ed
job". I don't have time to do any other kind, unfortunately, so I haven't
entered in a long time.
--
...Chambers
http://www.geocities.com/bdchambers79
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On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:16:38 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>
> I think the bar has risen sufficiently that people are intimidated to enter.
>
> Or a better way of putting it would be, "I don't want to do a half-a**ed
> job". I don't have time to do any other kind, unfortunately, so I haven't
> entered in a long time.
Certainly a factor.
Maybe it would be neat to have a second contest, which can only be entered
by those who haven't won something (IE 1st-3rd or a merit award) in the
regular contest?
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"Tyler Eaves" <tyl### [at] NOSPAMml1net> wrote in message
news:pan### [at] NOSPAMml1net...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:16:38 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I think the bar has risen sufficiently that people are intimidated to
enter.
> >
> > Or a better way of putting it would be, "I don't want to do a half-a**ed
> > job". I don't have time to do any other kind, unfortunately, so I
haven't
> > entered in a long time.
>
> Certainly a factor.
>
> Maybe it would be neat to have a second contest, which can only be entered
> by those who haven't won something (IE 1st-3rd or a merit award) in the
> regular contest?
Or sort them into categories. Everybody by default gets put into a JV
group. When someone wins an award or HM, they get put into the Varsity
league. The two are judged separately? We could even separate it further:
freshman, sophomore, junior & senior. You move from each category to the
next by placing, getting an HM or just having entered enough rounds (ie,
after 5 rounds you're automatically promoted to sophomore, so you don't get
depressed about perennially being a freshman).
Of course, this deals with the problem of identification.
I don't think 4 categories would work well, but something like this might be
more inviting for new artists. If the problem is the number of entries,
then this might help.
But, maybe the number of entries isn't a problem. It all depends.
--
...Chambers
http://www.geocities.com/bdchambers79
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Tyler Eaves wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:16:38 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>
>
>
>>I think the bar has risen sufficiently that people are intimidated to enter.
>>
>>Or a better way of putting it would be, "I don't want to do a half-a**ed
>>job". I don't have time to do any other kind, unfortunately, so I haven't
>>entered in a long time.
>
>
> Certainly a factor.
>
> Maybe it would be neat to have a second contest, which can only be entered
> by those who haven't won something (IE 1st-3rd or a merit award) in the
> regular contest?
I don't think that would solve much, if you divide 40 entrants by 2 ...
The other thing is that the IRTC is a competition and not everyone can
be first, and like Pierre de Coubertin said "The important is to
participate".
I think that what's missing in the IRTC is simply dynamism:
- it always takes days before you see the images, you see the results,
etc ...
- the web site hasn't change since a very long time, it still looks like
these old web sites I was writing back at university in 1996. The simple
fact that you have to go through text files to see the results and count
the lines to know your rank is really choking in 2004.
It is probably just that the admins where overwhelmed by the success
they got with the competition, but now with something like maybe 6000
entries that required a lot of time from the entrants, they have a kind
of responsability. I'm not saying they should spend their time working
on the competition, but they could ask for help, suggestions. I'm sure
there would be people willing to help. The best guaranty of success for
a web site is to have an open team where people can get in and out.
I made a quick stats site because I felt that some things could be done,
and suggested some improvements. I created a yearly contest so that
new entrants could have a goal at their reach. I'm not saying that these
are good ideas, but they show obviously that the competition can be
improved.
Nothing is perfect, but in nature a species that stops evolving
disapears. I believe the same happens on the net. I really hope the IRTC
will start evolving again because I think it's a really great
competition and that it's historic at the scale of the internet.
JC
--
http://exether.free.fr/irtc (more IRTC stats !)
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JC (Exether) wrote:
> Tyler Eaves wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:16:38 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think the bar has risen sufficiently that people are intimidated to
>>> enter.
>>>
>>> Or a better way of putting it would be, "I don't want to do a half-a**ed
>>> job". I don't have time to do any other kind, unfortunately, so I
>>> haven't
>>> entered in a long time.
>>
>>
>>
>> Certainly a factor.
>>
>> Maybe it would be neat to have a second contest, which can only be
>> entered
>> by those who haven't won something (IE 1st-3rd or a merit award) in the
>> regular contest?
>
>
> I don't think that would solve much, if you divide 40 entrants by 2 ...
> The other thing is that the IRTC is a competition and not everyone can
> be first, and like Pierre de Coubertin said "The important is to
> participate".
>
> I think that what's missing in the IRTC is simply dynamism:
> - it always takes days before you see the images, you see the results,
> etc ...
> - the web site hasn't change since a very long time, it still looks like
> these old web sites I was writing back at university in 1996. The simple
> fact that you have to go through text files to see the results and count
> the lines to know your rank is really choking in 2004.
>
> It is probably just that the admins where overwhelmed by the success
> they got with the competition, but now with something like maybe 6000
> entries that required a lot of time from the entrants, they have a kind
> of responsability. I'm not saying they should spend their time working
> on the competition, but they could ask for help, suggestions. I'm sure
> there would be people willing to help. The best guaranty of success for
> a web site is to have an open team where people can get in and out.
>
> I made a quick stats site because I felt that some things could be done,
> and suggested some improvements. I created a yearly contest so that new
> entrants could have a goal at their reach. I'm not saying that these are
> good ideas, but they show obviously that the competition can be improved.
>
> Nothing is perfect, but in nature a species that stops evolving
> disapears. I believe the same happens on the net. I really hope the IRTC
> will start evolving again because I think it's a really great
> competition and that it's historic at the scale of the internet.
>
> JC
>
Some very good comments in my opinion. I happen to like the visual
design of the site but the presentation of data could be improved as you
say. Some of the same things I said about your site I would also say
about the IRTC site, that I would hesitate to send people there to view
my work because navigation is just to hard to explain. But again, I
think we are making these comments in the wrong place. Either the
contest admins need to start reading these groups or we need to start
using the irtc_l I think.
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Hi Jim,
> But again, I
> think we are making these comments in the wrong place. Either the
> contest admins need to start reading these groups or we need to start
> using the irtc_l I think.
Hmmm, maybe it's not the wrong place, but it's the wrong state of mind.
You know TANSTAAFL?
Maybe it's more like WYGIFFDEIIT (When You Get It For Free, Don't Expect
It In Time)
They're volunteers, I think. They're not paid for it. What else do I have
to say?
PS: I'm really looking forward to seeing the next version of GIMP. It'll
still take some time and it'll be good _and_ free - so _I DON'T COMPLAIN_
(sorry ;) ).
--
Bye,
Ingo.
http://www.freio.de
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Ingo Guenther wrote:
>>But again, I
>>think we are making these comments in the wrong place. Either the
>>contest admins need to start reading these groups or we need to start
>>using the irtc_l I think.
>
>
> Hmmm, maybe it's not the wrong place, but it's the wrong state of mind.
> You know TANSTAAFL?
>
> Maybe it's more like WYGIFFDEIIT (When You Get It For Free, Don't Expect
> It In Time)
>
> They're volunteers, I think. They're not paid for it. What else do I have
> to say?
>
> PS: I'm really looking forward to seeing the next version of GIMP. It'll
> still take some time and it'll be good _and_ free - so _I DON'T COMPLAIN_
> (sorry ;) ).
>
When the speed of the service is being complained about, I do *not*
agree with the complainers. I'm as sensitive as anyone to the voluntary
nature of all this. And appreciative. My usual comparison is that,
worst case, it is like a bistro where the service might be casual, but
it is friendly and you can hang out there all day. I like these kind of
bistros. And I have yet to make an entry and meet the deadline. Ask
Bill or Chip. I am sure they are aware of it. I *depend* on the fact
that a little human leeway is offered. That part of it I like. *Just as
it is.* I would not what it to change. I like human leeway where ever
I can get it. And I have never complained intentionally. Other
contests on the web are like McDonald's to me. I could go on...
I also understand that for newer participants there can be a huge
buildup of excitement surrounding making an entry. At least there was
for me the first few times. They need to realize it's only pictures.
Fun, but only pictures. Take a step back. It will be just as gratifying
whenever you get the results back see your achievement. I've not
explicitely stated this before because I thought everyone understood it.
I also see that "need to start reading these groups" comes off as a
demand. It wasn't meant to be. I was just outlining what I think is
the situation. I believe I have seen Bill Marrs state on numerous
times, but not recently, that he does not read the groups and prefers
the list. I totally respect that. But again, for a newcomer it is a
bit of a fake out. They are posting on i.general, they think they are
being heard. I just wanted to alert some of the newer names to that fact.
With what Jean was saying that I *do* agree with is his general spirit
of encouragement and his attempt to inject some energy into the contest
side of things. He values what is there. He made the effort to go
throught the data and put some tracking in place as a sort of meta
contest. I think it is a real act of appreciation. And a creative idea.
This may seem contradictory coming from me because I usually strive to
play down the competitive side of the contest. But his idea rounds out
the way recognition is given I believe. It not only clearly shows that
the biggest winners are the hardest workers, it offers that there is
more than one way to win. I think it is a brilliant idea actually and
totally fits with the spirit of our "take time to smell the roses"
approach here.
I think what Jean intended on the site design issue,
and what I intended by chiming in, was to inject a little energy, a
little encouragement. I am solidly in the "ain't broken, don't fix it"
camp. But while I *love* the charm of the IRTC home page graphics, some
of the charm as worn off of the funkier aspects of the navigation. It
is a little weird trying to explain to people that to see my picture,
they have to first click on the winner's picture, then scroll down past
the runners' up pictures, and then find a link that says something about
"viewing page". You can put a modern stove in a charming old bistro and
have a cheerier, charming old bistro. And what we are saying is... you
got something good here, spend some money on a stove. People are
willing to help. It doesn't have to be the "new site design contest"
format either. Maybe someone has a nephew that's anxious to do some
design. But definitely I would keep the patina that accompanies IRTC's
seniority on the Net.
Now I was around during the time of the latest update to the POV site
and I realize that it doesn't come without a cost. Arguments happen,
feelings get hurt. Further, I am also one the fatuous types who doesn't
know how to define or achieve a better design, I just "know it when I
see it" So I'm in no position to be criticizing. And I may be
completely wrong. But the Web has matured a bit. Not every single
mouse-clicker thinks they are God's give to webdesign. (There is a
small, but devoted handful of us that don't). There might be fewer
arguments. And again, for someone with the talent and energy, some good
might be accomplished. We just want to give the encouragement not the
complaint.
-Jim
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I totatly back Jim, he expressed and understood my opinion perfectly.
Someone should bring this to the mailing list maybe, I was receiving it
sometime ago but I couldn't read all the messages (they would better fit
on the newsgroups by the way, I think it's another artifact from the past).
I really don't want to start a flamewar, I'm more suggesting than
complaining. And it's important to note that this is not only the
opinion of one or two guys here and there, I had the opportunity to see
that this is a very common opinion among current and former IRTCers.
Redesigning the web site or improving the stats is kind of secondary,
opening the admin team is really the main point here, with such a
success the competition now belongs to the IRTC community.
JC
--
http://exether.free.fr/irtc (more IRTC stats !)
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