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I am considering entering an image to the IRTC image round with the topic
"Worship".
My image is a possible Christian interpretation of hell.
My problem is that I don't know exactly what "worship" means. Is it only
something one considers truly great and good, or can it also be something
one considers truly horrible and bad?
Or more to the point: can normal people worship hell, or would only sick
people do that (like maybe Satanists)?
I don't want to submit an image if the connection to the theme is not
obvious...
Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:37:57 +0100 Rune wrote:
>I don't want to submit an image if the connection to the theme is not
>obvious...
Quoting from the IRTC notes on the current theme:
http://www.irtc.org/stills/curtopic.html
"Where or what people worship: an ancient cathedral, a modern mosque,
Studio 54, Yosemite; gods, devils, Mother Nature, rock stars,
supermodels, television, money. Any thing or any place revered as
supernatural or numinous."
"Numinous" can be defined as "Of, or relating to, a numen;
supernatural". This is a new word to me. I guess they are referring to
Newman, the eccentric postal worker on (Jerry) "Seinfeld" ;)
--
Alan - ako### [at] povray org - a k o n g <at> p o v r a y <dot> o r g
http://www.povray.org - Home of the Persistence of Vision Ray Tracer
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I would say that the contemplation of "hell" might be considered primary to
Christian faithand therefore
a component in the 'reality' of an individual's 'worship'
Rune wrote:
> I am considering entering an image to the IRTC image round with the topic
> "Worship".
> My image is a possible Christian interpretation of hell.
>
> My problem is that I don't know exactly what "worship" means. Is it only
> something one considers truly great and good, or can it also be something
> one considers truly horrible and bad?
>
> Or more to the point: can normal people worship hell, or would only sick
> people do that (like maybe Satanists)?
>
> I don't want to submit an image if the connection to the theme is not
> obvious...
>
> Rune
> --
> \ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
> / The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
> \ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
> / Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org
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"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> wrote in message
news:3a6dde1e@news.povray.org...
> I am considering entering an image to the IRTC image round with the topic
> "Worship".
> My image is a possible Christian interpretation of hell.
I can't imagine anyone finding this off-topic. Go, Rune, Go.
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In article <3a6dde1e@news.povray.org>, "Rune" <run### [at] inamecom>
wrote:
>Or more to the point: can normal people worship hell, or would only sick
>people do that (like maybe Satanists)?
This is a really weird question, because I was just doing a write-up of
Christian "gods" for a role-playing game, and just finished Satan before
reading your message :*)
The short answer: even normal Christians will "propitiate" Satan and the
denizens of Hell. That's what Hallowe'en is all about
(post-Christianity, of course), after all. On rare occasions, some
Christians will "bargain" with Satan, offering their soul in return for
some material benefit.
Satanists, in my limited experience, tend to worship the pre-Christian
being that Satan became--that is, they're another form of Wicca, not
Christianity. As such, I'm not sure that they have a hell, but I'd be
willing to bet that a Google search on "Satanism" would come up with
some more definitive answers.
Satan
Names: Satan, Lucifer
Sobriquets: The Morning Star, The Fallen One, The Tempter, The Prince of
Deception, The Devil
Worshippers: Politicians, Businessmen, Musicians
Moral Codes: Ordered, Evil, Ordered Evil, Chaotic Evil
Prophets: Ordered Evil
Satan is a fallen angel, who rebelled against the order of Heaven. Some
legends say that he did this because he was jealous of the attention
His rebellion failed, and he was cast down with his followers to
Gehennah, or Hell, with all the damned souls of humanity. He set himself
Satan rules over the demons, some or all of whom were also fallen
angels, and ensures the eternal suffering of the damned, those who are
not worthy to enter Heaven.
Satan sees himself in competition with Jehovah for the souls of humans.
He sends his minions out in his name to tempt good people into pride,
and to ensure the continued wickedness of evil people.
In general, Christians do not worship Satan. To do so ensures their
eternal damnation well beyond their few years as mortal beings. But the
more superstitious will propitiate Satan and his followers, by, for
example, placing gourds with evil faces and burning candles on their
salt over their left shoulder after spilling salt. Many Christians
dressing as evil spirits and going from house to house to demand
tribute, or by staying home and presenting tribute (minor gifts, candy,
or food) to Satan's minions on demand.
Satan to gain earthly benefits in return for their soul. That is, upon
they believe that their sins are already unforgiveable. Some believe
that they are better lawyers than Satan and will be able to find a flaw
in the contractual agreement. Others may do so without looking to the
future at all. Some may do so in the belief that Hell cannot be as bad
as it is said to be. Satan is a master of deception and flattery and
will encourage any and all such tendencies. Whether these contracts are
to debate.
Christian legend has it that at the end of the world, Satan will return
to Earth with all his legions, including the damned, to do war with
Jehovah and his legions of angels, led by Jesus. The return of Satan
(and thus the return of Jesus) will be marked by incredible signs and
portents. However, before the true end of the world, Satan will tempt
humans to prophecize about ends of the world that never happen.
that never rises above the Earth for long without falling.
Jerry
--
http://www.hoboes.com/jerry/
"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, and you've
depleted the lake."--It Isn't Murder If They're Yankees
(http://www.hoboes.com/jerry/Murder/)
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Thank you all for your feedback!
I think I understand it now, and I intent to participate. :)
Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org
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"Jerry" wrote:
> In general, Christians do not worship Satan. To do so
> ensures their eternal damnation well beyond their few
> years as mortal beings.
This is what I feared. Some says that "worship" can mean anything numinous
and supernatural (which would include hell), but according to you, it also
has to be something you find positive (which excludes hell).
So I'm still confused... :(
Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org
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Rune wrote:
>
> "Jerry" wrote:
> > In general, Christians do not worship Satan. To do so
> > ensures their eternal damnation well beyond their few
> > years as mortal beings.
>
> This is what I feared. Some says that "worship" can mean anything numinous
> and supernatural (which would include hell), but according to you, it also
> has to be something you find positive (which excludes hell).
>
> So I'm still confused... :(
Hell is negative to those who worship Christ. Hell is positive to those
who worship Satan. It all depends upon your frame of reference.
--
Ken Tyler - 1400+ POV-Ray, Graphics, 3D Rendering, and Raytracing Links:
http://home.pacbell.net/tylereng/index.html http://www.povray.org/links/
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"Rune" <run### [at] inamecom> wrote in message
news:3a6f1ca3@news.povray.org...
> "Jerry" wrote:
> > In general, Christians do not worship Satan. To do so
> > ensures their eternal damnation well beyond their few
> > years as mortal beings.
> This is what I feared. Some says that "worship" can mean anything numinous
> and supernatural (which would include hell), but according to you, it also
> has to be something you find positive (which excludes hell).
> So I'm still confused... :(
Well, that all depends.. Do they worship what they consider 'God' out of
fear of hell? Depends on what tangent you wish to take with it. I would
say, go with it. If you really want alot about it, check out
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=worship
I'd say it's a judgment call, no pun intended. I'd say to worship
something, you have the revere it in some way. This would denote a positive
light. You could really take a tangent on it, and say that in the way one
worships, they are worshiping hell, in the guise of doing so to their god..
I mean, christians raping young children and all. (NOT trying to create an
argument, merely trying to point out ways to interpret things in a personal
light..)
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"Thomas Charron" wrote:
> Do they worship what they consider 'God' out of fear of hell?
Some might, but that's not the point. They would still be worshipping God,
and not hell.
> Depends on what tangent you wish to take with it.
I wish the connection to the theme "worship" to be obvious, not just
acceptable. I understand that hell is normally not considered to be an
object of worship, because hell is a negative thing, and worship is
(normally) about positive things. That's all I wanted to know.
That settles it. I think my image is too off-topic. I don't want some
tortuous argument to justify the connection to the theme.
Well IRTC, maybe another time...
Rune
--
\ Include files, tutorials, 3D images, raytracing jokes,
/ The POV Desktop Theme, and The POV-Ray Logo Contest can
\ all be found at http://rsj.mobilixnet.dk (updated January 6)
/ Also visit http://www.povrayusers.org
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