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From: St 
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 12:19:46
Message: <47a74932@news.povray.org>
"Mike the Elder" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
news:web.47a7283f4cd5f3625a8888d90@news.povray.org...
> "B. Gimeno" <nomail@nomail> wrote:
>> Jan Dvorak <jan### [at] centrumcz> wrote:
>> > jhu napsal(a):
>> > > It's been over a year now. Is something else taking its place?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > tc-rtc.co.uk
>> > see a few threads upward
>>
>> I lament it, but this substitute is not able to replace the spirit of the
>> original aid. It's an opiniation, the proposed subjects are not as "open" 
>> as
>> long ago because usually they are based on unknown works that stops most 
>> of the
>> non-english-speakers users of POV-Ray. Resignation.
>>
>> B. Gimeno
>
> I have a good deal of sympathy with you comment.  When I first heard about 
> the
> system that was to be used to select topics, I had rather high hopes for 
> it.
> It turns out that, even as a naive English speaker, I have found the 
> topics
> that have been selected rather uninspiring and restrictive.  (To be fair,
> however, I should point out that the organizers have stipulated that one 
> does
> not have to be in any way familiar with the CONTENT of the selected work; 
> the
> submission need only be inspired by the title and even that can be 
> interpreted
> very broadly.)
>
> The only PERSON I feel compelled to criticize with regard to current state 
> of
> ray tracing competition is myself.  I believe that I could have and should 
> have
> done a better job of finishing and submitting entries to help build up the
> "TC-RTC".  Despite the fact that I have no moral high ground to speak from 
> in
> this regard, I would still like to encourage others to join me in trying 
> to do
> more to support the competition so that it CAN become all we would like it 
> to
> be.
>
> This being said, I would like to offer a friendly suggestion to the TC-RTC
> organizers to consider modifications to the topic selection process in
> recognition of the fact that participation levels have not been as high as 
> were
> hoped for.  I would also like to thank these same organizers for their 
> hard work
> and perseverance through challenging times.

      Thanks for your observations Mike. I've been thinking about the topic 
system, (which *I* think is brilliant), and I'll propose this:

       o- There will be a choice of  five topics per two monthy stills round 
using the same system.

       o- Each entrant may pick a minimum of one topic to enter.

       o- One entrant may enter up to five topics if they so desire.

       Doing it this way, the chances are that there will be something for 
everyone to do. (After all, the voting is based on an interpretation of said 
topic(s), so whichever topic an entrant enters, if their image is the 'best' 
out of all five topics, that image is going to be in the 'first' slot).

      It's the only thing I can think of at the moment so as to spread a 
little variation, but I'm open to any suggestions other than this.

        Regards,

        ~Steve~




>
> Best Regards,
> Mike C.
>
>


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From: St 
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 12:29:29
Message: <47a74b79$1@news.povray.org>
"Stephen" <mcavoysATaolDOTcom@> wrote in message 
news:prheq3dgcie4rn3ne5q66r5vpdu3vs3fp0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:57:52 -0000, "St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
>
>>
>>     I'll make sure the next topic is "Glass" - now that *should* bring
>>about 186+ entries in.
>
> You are transparent, Steve :)

   LOL! :)

   Well, you know where I'm coming from, you only have to look at the 
past/early topics and you can see a hell of a lot of entries for simple 
topics, but if you study it properly, you can also see that the IRTC started 
to dwindle a *long* time before everyone 'disappeared'.

     ~Steve~



>
> Regards
> Stephen


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From: St 
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 12:46:54
Message: <47a74f8e$1@news.povray.org>
"William Tracy" <wtr### [at] calpolyedu> wrote in message 
news:47a74649$1@news.povray.org...
> Mike the Elder wrote:
>> It turns out that, even as a naive English speaker, I have found the 
>> topics
>> that have been selected rather uninspiring and restrictive.
>
> Unfortunately, I have to agree. It was a neat idea, but the topic 
> selection system isn't working out very well.

     Why not? How about this one; "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Internet",
     or this one; "The First 1000 Euler Numbers"
     or this one; "The Machine"
     or this one; "Relativity: The Special and General Theory"

    These are all there, waiting to be turned into *imaginative* rendered 
art.


>
> Oddly enough, the original "This Is Not a Checkered Plane" was arguably 
> the best topic I've ever seen for a raytracing competition--it even had a 
> cute acronym. :-) Do we have any way of coming up with more topics like 
> that?

    Possible, suggest away.

     ~Steve~


>
> -- 
> William Tracy
> afi### [at] gmailcom -- wtr### [at] calpolyedu
>
> I saw a poster that read:
> "Simpsons: The Movie: Rent it or own it."
> I'm not sure, but I think it's a threat.


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From: Trevor G Quayle
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 14:20:00
Message: <web.47a7646c4cd5f362c150d4c10@news.povray.org>
Perhaps moving to a system where the topic is only a single word.  This can
surely be understandable to most while leaving the possibility open for
anywhere from narrow to broad interpretation, simple to complex scenes.  It may
be more palatable to a lot of artists who don't want to jump into full detailed
scenes as opposed to more simple or abstract ones.  Even the topic "glass" as
mentioned could have lots of possibilities beyond the obvious, and surely
getting lots of entries is better than only getting a handful.  I thought of
this because of some news posting on deviantART where the poster used a single
word at random for searching, then featured the top results.

eg:
http://news.deviantart.com/article/30939/
http://news.deviantart.com/article/31479/
http://news.deviantart.com/article/32363/

This could be a reverse of this concept.

Just a thought...

-tgq


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From: Larry Hudson
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 21:33:29
Message: <47a7caf9$1@news.povray.org>
St. wrote:
> "B. Gimeno" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
> news:web.47a71fc94cd5f3622683f30c0@news.povray.org...
> 
>>Jan Dvorak <jan### [at] centrumcz> wrote:
>>
>>>jhu napsal(a):
>>>
>>>>It's been over a year now. Is something else taking its place?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>tc-rtc.co.uk
>>>see a few threads upward
>>
>>I lament it, but this substitute is not able to replace the spirit of the
>>original aid. It's an opiniation, the proposed subjects are not as "open" 
>>as
>>long ago because usually they are based on unknown works that stops most 
>>of the
>>non-english-speakers users of POV-Ray. Resignation.
> 
> 
>     Thanks for your support. For what it's worth, and in my understanding, 
> the IRTC is on "hiatus".
> 
>      I'll make sure the next topic is "Glass" - now that *should* bring 
> about 186+ entries in.
> 
>      ~Steve~

Slightly different question/comment:  Since the TC-RTC like the IRTC is 
open to all renderers, is there anything being done to publicize it in 
the non-POV-Ray world?  If so, ignore my comment.  I'm only familiar 
with POV-Ray myself, but I like the idea of these competitions being 
open to all  (And as to familiarity, my knowledge/ability is "spotty" at 
best, and I've never entered either IRTC or TC-RTC.  I'm just a lurker 
in these, but I like to see all the great work being done.)     ;-)

      -=- Larry -=-


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From: Larry Hudson
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 4 Feb 2008 21:51:14
Message: <47a7cf22$1@news.povray.org>
Trevor G Quayle wrote:
> Perhaps moving to a system where the topic is only a single word.  This can
> surely be understandable to most while leaving the possibility open for
> anywhere from narrow to broad interpretation, simple to complex scenes.  It may
> be more palatable to a lot of artists who don't want to jump into full detailed
> scenes as opposed to more simple or abstract ones.  Even the topic "glass" as
> mentioned could have lots of possibilities beyond the obvious, and surely
> getting lots of entries is better than only getting a handful.
> .....
> Just a thought...
> 
> -tgq

Perhaps this is what you really mean, but instead of limiting the topics 
to a single word, I would suggest that this be expanded to allow short 
phrases that imply a single concept.  For example (taken directly from 
the IRTC):  Imaginary Worlds, Spectacular Landscapes, Toys & Games, 
Forces of Nature, and similar.

      -=- Larry -=-


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From: Trevor G Quayle
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 5 Feb 2008 01:45:00
Message: <web.47a804cd4cd5f3622ae8612c0@news.povray.org>
Larry Hudson <org### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> Trevor G Quayle wrote:
> > Perhaps moving to a system where the topic is only a single word.  This can
> > surely be understandable to most while leaving the possibility open for
> > anywhere from narrow to broad interpretation, simple to complex scenes.  It may
> > be more palatable to a lot of artists who don't want to jump into full detailed
> > scenes as opposed to more simple or abstract ones.  Even the topic "glass" as
> > mentioned could have lots of possibilities beyond the obvious, and surely
> > getting lots of entries is better than only getting a handful.
> > .....
> > Just a thought...
> >
> > -tgq
>
> Perhaps this is what you really mean, but instead of limiting the topics
> to a single word, I would suggest that this be expanded to allow short
> phrases that imply a single concept.  For example (taken directly from
> the IRTC):  Imaginary Worlds, Spectacular Landscapes, Toys & Games,
> Forces of Nature, and similar.
>
>       -=- Larry -=-

Well not really (not to say that your suggestion isn't without merit, after all
it is more or less the way the original IRTC was set up).  Ideas like that
promote a single concept that can tend to fall in a narrow to very narrow scope
of interpretation which can be limiting to some individuals.  Whereas a single
word (depending on the word I suppose) can be open to very broad
interpretation.  Some folk are very good at assembling full scenes, whereas
others tend to focus on solitary or collections of objects, while others tend
to dabble in the minimalistic and abstract.  Full titles, such as are being
used now, tend to lead themselves more heavily toward full scenes.  Concepts,
such as you suggest, lend to scenes and sometimes objects.  But I think single
words would lend themselves more freely to the full spectrum of genres and
capabilities (for a singular example of this taken to an extreme, just have a
look at the growing gallery at CGSphere, in which all entries must be based on
the same base sphere, this is a bit more direct in concept, but the diversity
of ideas it is producing is what I am pointing out).
Pick a word at random and think of the ideas that may be produced.  For example
(using http://www.randomword.net/) "unification".  There is no concrete image
that springs to everyone's mind.  Some will see grandiose scenes of the Berlin
Wall falling, others may see simpler ideas such as two halves of a mystical
amulet combining, while yet others can see even simpler ideas like the fusion
of two primitives.

I am just thinking that it may get more participation if people felt they don't
need to go overboard.  I didn't participate in IRTC very often (read:once)
because I usually found myself without the inspiration or time to assemble the
scenes that seemed suitable to the topic (even the one time I did participate,
I felt my scene was unfinished).
I love seeing the capability of full POV-Ray (and any 3D renderer for that
matter) in all it's glory, with the spectucalar productions produced by the
likes of Gilles Tran or Jaime Vives Piqueres (to only name a couple), but I am
equally drawn to the abstract or simplistic images (have a look at my
favourites gallery at deviantART
http://barberofcivil.deviantart.com/favourites/ )
(sorry not trying to promote myself here)
I would love to see all these genres on an equal playing field, wher one is no
more or less appropriate than the other.


-tgq


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 7 Feb 2008 08:07:17
Message: <47ab0285$1@news.povray.org>
Fwiw, here are a few thoughts.

I believe that a topic subject can trigger the creative process through 
different approaches. A 'simple' topic like 'Glass' for instance may 
generate many different scenes, but in a certain sense I am afraid many of 
them will be rather similar in concept. This is no criticism towards the 
artists but I imagine that this might be how the triggering works. On the 
other hand, a more 'complex' topic like those provided by the TC-RTC are 
more challenging and they demand a more conscious creative effort (or such 
is my personal experience). In the end, however, both generate interesting 
and imaginative works.

The important issue is not to frighten away potential submitters, however. 
So, although I have a personal preference for the TC-RTC way of choosing 
topics, it may be that a more IRTC-like way would be preferable for the time 
being, thus attracting more submissions, establishing the competition more 
firmly that way. Maybe, we could then have a TC-RTC-like topic twice or 
thrice a year in between?

Thomas


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From: St 
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 9 Feb 2008 19:00:52
Message: <47ae3eb4@news.povray.org>
"Larry Hudson" <org### [at] yahoocom> wrote in message 
news:47a7caf9$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> "B. Gimeno" <nomail@nomail> wrote in message 
>> news:web.47a71fc94cd5f3622683f30c0@news.povray.org...
>>
>>>Jan Dvorak <jan### [at] centrumcz> wrote:
>>>
>>>>jhu napsal(a):
>>>>
>>>>>It's been over a year now. Is something else taking its place?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>tc-rtc.co.uk
>>>>see a few threads upward
>>>
>>>I lament it, but this substitute is not able to replace the spirit of the
>>>original aid. It's an opiniation, the proposed subjects are not as "open" 
>>>as
>>>long ago because usually they are based on unknown works that stops most 
>>>of the
>>>non-english-speakers users of POV-Ray. Resignation.
>>
>>
>>     Thanks for your support. For what it's worth, and in my 
>> understanding, the IRTC is on "hiatus".
>>
>>      I'll make sure the next topic is "Glass" - now that *should* bring 
>> about 186+ entries in.
>>
>>      ~Steve~
>
> Slightly different question/comment:  Since the TC-RTC like the IRTC is 
> open to all renderers, is there anything being done to publicize it in the 
> non-POV-Ray world?  If so, ignore my comment.  I'm only familiar with 
> POV-Ray myself, but I like the idea of these competitions being open to 
> all  (And as to familiarity, my knowledge/ability is "spotty" at best, and 
> I've never entered either IRTC or TC-RTC.  I'm just a lurker in these, but 
> I like to see all the great work being done.)     ;-)


     Hey, thanks for your observations, much appreciated, lurker or not. ;)

  Well, as for promoting the site, to be honest, no, I haven't promoted it 
yet. This is for a reason, and that reason is that I want to make sure 
everyone is happy with the voting and commenting code, so that it works 
properly. So far, so good - no complaints. This is the last round where I 
judge this, so I should be promoting the TC-RTC  soon.

   Anyway, I know what I have to do, but it still may take some time to hold 
Googles' hand.  :/


      ~Steve~



>
>      -=- Larry -=-


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From: none
Subject: Re: No more IRTC?
Date: 10 Feb 2008 07:34:40
Message: <47aeef60$1@news.povray.org>
St. wrote:

>    So far, so good - no complaints. This is the last round where I 
> judge this, so I should be promoting the TC-RTC  soon.

The only thing I might point out is that the site doesn't seem
to indicate (either in the rules on in a FAQ) what the typical
duration of the typical still or animation competition is.
It might be helpful if a potential entrant knew just how much
time he was going to have to work on an entry.

Other than that, I like the site, and am glad that the
competitive spirit lives on during IRTC's hiatus.


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